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The Independent Spirit: Building Resilient Businesses in a Changing Market | Rick Schumacher, LBM Journal | Sponsored by Do it Best Group

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Rick Schumacher of LBM Journal shares how independent lumber dealers can thrive amid industry giants by focusing on customer service, community connection, and embracing new technologies like AI. The conversation explores the power of storytelling in the building materials industry and how print media remains relevant in a digital world.

• Started LBM Journal in 2003 from home after previous magazine went bankrupt
• Built LBM Journal to become the #1 industry publication by focusing on "audience first" rather than "digital first"
• Creates community through telling stories of independent dealers like Baker Lumber (owned by daughters despite "and Sons" name)
• Shares how exceptional service at independent dealers creates competitive advantage against big box stores
• Highlights LBM Strategies Conference which intentionally limits sponsors to focus on dealer experience
• Established Century Club honoring lumber dealers over 100 years old, with combined 38,000 years of business experience
• Created 40 Under 40 program to recognize young industry leaders and foster next generation of talent
• AI presents an 18-24 month "arbitrage moment" before fundamentally changing the industry
• Emphasizes opportunity for young people in an industry with stability, community, and growth potential


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...
Rick Schumacher:

Reality isn't the way it appears to be or the way you wish things to be, but the way things actually are. Either use reality to your benefit or it'll automatically work against you.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh, that's stroll.

Rick Schumacher:

And the reality is that AI is here.

Stefanie Couch:

It is.

Rick Schumacher:

AI used to be a lot more scary to me than it is now. I don't think it's gonna replace people. I think it's just gonna be a tool for us to work smarter. And it's like any any other tool, people who get in early and use it to their benefit.

Stefanie Couch:

I don't think people understand. You can start using AI and really get pretty good at it pretty quickly. Everybody can use it. It'll teach you how to use itself. We do not have 20 years of rev-up period like we did with the internet. We have an arbitrage moment, 18 to 24 months, and the whole world will be completely different. It'll be probably faster than that, but I think in our industry we're still gonna hold back a little bit because we are so slow to change. I really believe in 18 to 24 months it looks totally different. Welcome to the Grit Blueprint Podcast, the playbook for building unmistakable brands that grow, lead, and last in the built world. I'm Stefanie Couch, the founder of Grit Blueprint, and I'm a lifelong building industry insider. I was raised here, built my career here, and now my team and I help others win here. The truth is, you can be the best option in your space and still lose to someone else who simply shows up better and more consistently. Each week on the Grit Blueprint, I'm going to show you how to stand out, earn trust, and turn your brand into a competitive advantage that lasts. If you're ready to be seen, known, chosen, and become unmistakable, you're in the right place. Let's get started. Thank you for joining me on the Grit Blueprint Podcast. I am your host, Stefanie Couch, and we are coming to you live from the bustling floor on the Do-It Best Market. We're in Indianapolis, and I'm here today with a very special guest, Rick Schumacher from LBM Journal. Welcome to the show, Rick.

Rick Schumacher:

Thanks, Stefanie.

Stefanie Couch:

And there's a lot of things happening around us right now. People everywhere. The market floor actually just opened about 30 minutes ago. It's the first night of the show. We do a preview here. There's food, there's all the fun things. But I want to talk to you about some other fun things that you have going on because I've actually known you for a while. You have an amazing industry magazine and online publication as well. So I've got a copy here, and you just gave me this. You didn't plan this, but I'm gonna act like you did because I'm obsessed with golden retrievers. And this episode has or this magazine cover has a beautiful golden retriever on here, and his name is Blue. I see. And this is actually what you do is tell stories of people in the industry.

Rick Schumacher:

Correct.

Stefanie Couch:

And you've been doing this for a long time. So you have been in the industry longer than this, but you started LBN Journal in 2003.

Rick Schumacher:

Yes.

Stefanie Couch:

Tell me a little bit about why you started it and what need you saw that you filled in the industry.

Rick Schumacher:

Okay, well, I started so the story is I I started working, I worked for another magazine called that called Building Material Dealer, starting in 1990. And I worked for that for 13 years, and I just kind of worked my way up. By 2003, I was running the day the day-to-day operations, and there was a lawsuit that put the magazine out of business. So I had to bring my team together and tell them as of today, we're in chapter seven bankruptcy. So turn in your card key and we could all go home because we're done. There's there's nothing else to do for us here. There's no more job, no more paychecks. So time to go. But I said, um, but I we've got a great team, a great product, a great reputation. So I'm not ready to walk away yet. So I'm gonna launch a new magazine from home. Since there's no investors, there's no money for office space, there's no guarantee anyone's ever gonna get paid. So who's with me? And so that's how we got started. So we had wow. So I started it because this is the one thing I knew how to do. And we had built these relationships. So three people came with and two of them are still with me today.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, Jody Cook, Redwood, our associate publisher, and Rich Hart, our design uh creative director.

Stefanie Couch:

Isn't it interesting how the things in life that could be the worst moments end up being the catalyst for something that sets you in a totally great direction? I mean, that's been a long time, 22 years, um almost 23 years. And you could have just said, Well, I guess I'll go get another job, but you took the leap and that's really cool. Your team went with you as well. I think that shows a lot about who you are as a leader.

Rick Schumacher:

It's they're really good people, and we had a we just have a great thing together.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, that's awesome. So you do a lot of things in the industry that are not just on these pages in a magazine.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

Tell me a little bit about LBM Journal today and what are you doing? What's your mission and how do you serve the overall industry? Because this industry does like to get information a more traditional way, but you're also coming into the tech space with social media and a lot of events and postings. Tell me about that.

Rick Schumacher:

Well, we're I guess kind of like our overall our mission is to build the community. So it's not um we don't do things that necessarily everything doesn't have to make money, you know. We don't have we're never gonna have Lowe's or Home Depot on the cover ever. You know, and other magazines do because that's where there's money. So in this one, we have Baker Lumber, a little lumber yard in um in Michigan with Blue, their dog, on the cover. I mean, this is not gonna, this is not a moneymaker, but this is the community. Yeah, and they've got a great story. They do. So that's the thing. We're just we're it's about strengthening the the building the community because it's a great the LBM community is full of amazing people.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and it's really the heart of what our our business is is people like Baker Lumber. So tell me about Baker Lumber because you said something funny when you first talked about the cover that it's Baker Lumber. So tell me what you said.

Rick Schumacher:

Company was called Baker Lumber and Sons.

Stefanie Couch:

Yes.

Rick Schumacher:

But it's actually owned by daughters.

Stefanie Couch:

I love it. The irony is amazing, right? And the cool part about that is that I'm sure that the dad or granddad started it. Um, you know, I'm third generation lumber yard, my granddad started his, then my dad, and now here I am. Uh my dad had three daughters, he didn't have any sons, so it was either me or nobody.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

So here we are.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

Tell me about their story a little bit.

Rick Schumacher:

It's like a family that came together to to do this thing that's important for their community. Yeah. And so they, you know, there's so they came, they had um, like there's a son too, and he um he went off and was like an accountant for a big accounting firm. And so it's just everybody just kind of they went off and then they came back and now they're and now they're home.

Stefanie Couch:

That's cool. A lot of people do that, you know. Chick-fil-A, um, they actually, I think, made all of their kids and grandkids go work somewhere else beside that to just see what it's like not being, you know, in that culture. I think that helped me a lot when I went to a bigger company to have the view of different things and kind of take some good from that, take some bad from that, and figure out what needed to be there. I think that's helped me a lot in my business. Yeah. When you look at media today and like the stories that you tell, I would love to hear just one or two that that be like really resonate with people that some of the things you've seen or heard in the last year or two. I mean, there's so many amazing people in our industry, and I do feel like their stories just need to be told, which is what you're doing. So tell me, tell me a few of them.

Rick Schumacher:

Let's talk about um Walker Lumber.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh, love Walker Lumber. They're in Nashville, right?

Rick Schumacher:

Nashville. We're going to we're having our LBM Strategies conference in Nashville because of Walker Lumber.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

So they were nominated to be a LBM Dealer of the Year.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

I'd never heard of them. Um, but we read their the nomination. I was like, these guys have a great story. Yeah. And I and they won, they, they won the dealer of the year for their category. And I went to, I asked them if they'd come and you know, speak at our conference. Yeah. And they said, yeah, but they wanted me to come out there first and meet with them and see what they do and how they do it.

Stefanie Couch:

So you understood.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, so I flew out and I just thought, okay, it's gonna be, I mean, it's gonna be a great company doing great things, right? Yeah. But it's beyond that. So I went, they took me out to the lumberyard. The um a lot of a lot of companies have as few workers as they as they can get by with. They have more than they need.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

Because they have something called they have a second chance program.

Stefanie Couch:

I've I've heard about this, it's super cool.

Rick Schumacher:

Spectacular. So they have people who are returning citizens, they're like um former um people with addictions and you know, criminal records, but who are wanting to build a life. Yeah, and they give them that opportunity.

Stefanie Couch:

That's amazing. My friend Gina Schaefer does the same thing, and uh, you know, I think those stories that she tells that the people are so grateful for that second chance, and then they become some of the best employees that they've ever had. Right. I'm sure that they have the same at Walker Lumber. They also have a really beautiful building. I remember seeing that cover that you did with them of that white building with the black letters, and it's very striking. They um do they have a door shop there?

Rick Schumacher:

I don't believe they do have a door shop there.

Stefanie Couch:

I I would love to tour it. Um, it seems like a great place, and they have they have you know something special. What do you think? We talked, you said Lowe's and Home Depot never be on the cover, which I don't have a problem with personally. I'm curious, you know, we have this, I'm calling it the Clash of the Titans right now, you know, QXO with Brad Jacobs and HD and Lowe's and all of the Giants, you know, GMS's purchase went through today for Home Depot. How does the independent lumber yard and dealer survive and thrive in the market today with all the things going on?

Rick Schumacher:

I mean, I think a big part of it is like here we're at do it best with true value. And the room we just came from the kickoff. I mean, pack, there was thousands of people in there. So it's um I I think a lot of it is um bonding together using co-ops.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

The more personal you are, the more I don't know, there's a real power in that. So there's a lot of people who um I mean I have a funny story about when I went to I needed a wheelbarrow.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay.

Rick Schumacher:

So I went to um and it was too, it was like it was too late to go to the local Ace Hardware, which is down downtown Lakeville. So I went to Home Depot and they I said, Where are the wheelbarrows? And they said they're back there. So they I went back and you had to and they're all disassembled, so you have to look get the right parts. So there's you have to get the handle and then the thing.

Stefanie Couch:

Like a puzzle in the aisle. Right.

Rick Schumacher:

And so I figured out which one I want, and then I finally found the three parts that go together to I was really proud of myself. So I wheeled it up to the to pay for it, and it rang up for a penny. And so the woman said, You can't buy that. It's like, well, I'll pay more than a penny. And she said, No, you can't buy that. And they took it away and said, You have to go buy a different one. It's like, well, why can't I buy this one? This is fine. It's like, no, you can't.

Stefanie Couch:

You're like, I've already literally engineered this myself. I've already done all the work for you. What do you want from me?

Rick Schumacher:

So I'd been there like an hour, trying to like wandering around by myself, trying to figure out. And it's like, it was ridiculous. So I so I went home without a wheelbarrow. And the next morning I went to Ace Hardware. And I walked in, I said, Do you have wheelbarrows? They said, Yes, we do. And I said, they said they're right there. And I said, Great. And I um and they said, Would I picked one out and I said, I want that one. They said, Would you like us to put it together for you? I said, I'd love that. Would you like us to deliver it? It's like, I'd love that. And it was a it was a better quality product and it cost less. It didn't cost less than a penny, like the first one, but it cost less than the ones I would have had.

Stefanie Couch:

Who cares if it's a penny if you can't buy it, right?

Rick Schumacher:

Exactly.

Stefanie Couch:

It's crazy.

Rick Schumacher:

So it's like, what the hell? You know?

Stefanie Couch:

Well, and you know, I think that's that is the answer is the the service, the niching, you know, people that are really good at certain things, especially more technical things. Like I think about doors and windows and uh decking railing and things that are tough. Like you've got to have some expertise, and there's a lot of parts that could go wrong. Those are dominated, I still feel like by independents that really have experts. And then having a customer service model where you care about your people and you're obsessed over the customer experience, that's how people keep coming back. Because I promise, if you had a choice between that store number one experience and store number two, you're going back to number two every time, right?

Rick Schumacher:

Right. And I wrote about that in my publisher letter, the wheelbarrow, because people, yeah, it was because it's so absurd and it's real life.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

And the other you asked about um independence competing. So um, so Walker Lumber, before they they bought that, they bought that location and they um did a bunch of research to figure out how to build their new yard, what they wanted it to look like. And so they went out to visit Gnal Lumber in Southern California. And um, they got a lot of ideas from that.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

But Gnal is an independent, you know, privately owned company in California, Southern California. The bigger company, big national companies keep coming in and trying because there's so much business out there. Yeah. And Gnal just continues to grow. Like I think it's 13% growth year after year for 20 years. So they're just, and it's just by um by doing the right things.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah. So and they've built this reputation, you know. People ask me a lot, well, like what is branding? Well, branding is not logos and colors. I mean, that's part of it, right? But branding is reputation when you're not sitting in the room. What does it mean for you to walk away and someone know who you are? Hopefully they remember who you are, and then they remember the feeling, the service, good or bad, the products, all those things. And people like that that have those reputations and they have visibility, they're almost unstoppable. And I don't know very many pro contractors that would not want to work with them instead of the opposite. I think there's gonna be some disruption. You know, I I think about Brad Jacobs a lot. I've read his book three times. I've uh, you know, researched a lot of stuff he's doing. He he's hiring a lot of people that have been in our industry for a long time that have run USLBM, they've run, you know, big companies that have done well. He's hiring AI people from Target, he's hiring production AI people for purchasing from Walmart. I mean, he's done this seven times in other industries that have been pretty boring industries. So I do think he will disrupt in a he's already doing that, but I wonder, I mean, is he gonna figure it out or not? I don't know, you know, and then even with the SRS, they're a great company, they've kind of left them alone for now to run their business like they were before. They have a great leadership team. I think about that a lot. Like, what is that gonna look like in two to five years? I don't know because companies that big, they have to have to centralize, they don't have a choice, and I do believe decentralization, in my experience, has been the way to actually really dominate long term. Because you can build a brand that works for your market, a customer base that loves what you serve in that specific market. Yep. When I was in two step, that was how we won was we we ran under an extremely decentralized model. My boss used to tell me, he'd say, Yeah, if I wanted to sell lemonade in my branch, I could sell lemonade. And I'm like, Well, I mean, I guess that's true. And we did because we started a door shop there and it was all a fun experiment until all of a sudden they were like, Wow, this is a good idea. Let's do it 10 other places. So I think people can win if they get in, they get innovative and they stay hungry and have great customer experience.

Rick Schumacher:

Right. And Brad Jacobs is he's very bright, he's really sharp. I've read his book. Yeah, when when he started to come into our market before he did, yeah, I got a book, I got a signed copy of his book in the mail. It's like, I don't know who this is. Yep, but I read it, it's like this guy is brilliant. He is, you know, and um, and yeah, he's he's very sharp. So I have I have no doubt that he's gonna succeed.

Stefanie Couch:

A hundred percent. And I think that there's still room for the independents, even if when he does succeed, I won't even say if. Um, I feel like it's pretty certain. Uh, seven out of eight times, I feel like he'll bat eight for eight. But that is the interesting part is the business that he's going after and the business that the independents are going after, it can be different. It does not have to be one or the other. So I think it's interesting. This episode of the Grit Blueprint Podcast was sponsored by Do It Best Group. Do It Best Group is the largest co-op in the world, and they help independent hardware and lumber yards all over North America win. Do It Best offers services, products, and people that can help you win long term. They are the champion of independence. Let's shift a little bit. I want to talk about media because you know the media business is interesting. It print media in a lot of places, some would say are is dead, but in our industry it's not at all. Um, and you've proven that, and there's other people that are doing it well. I actually have sort of a contrarian view on that. I believe that because people are so tired of getting digital and emails that they actually like to touch and feel something in their hands, right? Even direct mail is doing really well. So, how are you balancing that of you know the print media, the digital, all the things that you have to do a lot now?

Rick Schumacher:

Well, you know, it's all it all comes down to what our audience wants and where they want it. So there's a story about um about we have a print story. So I launched this in 2003 on a shoestring, and it was just we're this tiny little team, and we were growing slowly. But then in 2008, I remembered Hanleywood. I don't know if you knew him. Okay. So very, very big. Yep.

Stefanie Couch:

And they're sales magazine, right?

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they were the um, they were by far the leader in our market. So their CEO, Hamleywood CEO, came out with a big announcement in 2008 that they were pivoting to digital first. And I just thought, wow, I wonder, I thought, I wonder if they know something I don't know, because for our market, it's still a it's an older demographic. They like paper, I think. Yeah. So then I thought, well, we do these, we do these quarterly ad studies. And one of the questions on that is how do you like to get your data? Print, digital, or both. So I went to that and it said, well, for our audience, it was like 90% prefer print. Wow. So we thought, okay, you guys go over there and do digital first, and we'll do audience first. So I think is if you just pay attention to your audience, yeah, and not like because print a print magazine is expensive in print. And like number crunchers, if they look and say, Well, if we could get rid of the postage, which is for LBM Journal, it's like $15,000 a month.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

And the print bill is about $20,000. Okay. So if we can get rid of those two expenses, think of how much money we'd make.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

But then you get rid of those two, and then you don't have the product that people want. So then Yeah, so that's why in in you know, we started like this the burr under the saddle of the big guys. And then in 2018, we became the number one book in our market, and now we're the we're the leading title in our market.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, you guys crush it.

Rick Schumacher:

Well, it's just from listening, it's listening and just doing what people want and being being nice.

Stefanie Couch:

I think that's a really good point because I don't think you should chase every trend because you're never gonna win at anything. Most of the people that I do see, like what you said, you looked at the data and you went with what you it doesn't mean you don't change when you need to, but you give people what they want still. And you're also really good. One of the things I love about what you do at LBM Journal is you're having events that teach people things that connect people with LBM strategies. So that's coming up. Let's talk a little bit about that. It's in Nashville this year, October 15th through the 17th. Yes. Embassy Suites in Nashville. Nashville is like the best city ever, so I can't imagine you're not gonna sell this thing out.

Rick Schumacher:

We have sold it out.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay, it's already sold out, so you can't even go, but it's you can read about it. You can read about it, and you should sign up for next year. Right. But it is a great event. So I've been to it before. Um, tell me a little bit about what your thought was when you started doing that, why did you start it, and what has it turned into for you?

Rick Schumacher:

We started it because I went to a I went to another um industry conference. I was it was put on by an association and a magazine, and it just felt off. And I couldn't really, and I I didn't know what it was, so I looked through the m the registration list, and about four it just seemed like there's way more sponsors than it than dealers. Yeah. And I counted it up, and it turned out there was between four and five sponsor personnel for every one dealer.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh wow.

Rick Schumacher:

So the dealers were unhappy, the sponsors were unhappy. Everybody was unhappy except the people who got to cash the sponsorship checks, right? Yeah, because that's where the money is. Yes. So we decided so that that event died. So we decided to launch one because our industry needs something. And we decided to put a strict limit on the number of um sponsors. So we have so we actually so we'll actually sell out of sponsorships and turn people away and turn away money, which for a media, a little media company is very weird.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah. But um I love the FOMO that creates though. Very smart.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, so it's um, so we do that and then we I mean, this year we're limited. Well, we're always limited by size, but this year it's the I mean, we're just spreading.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

Most of the people that get on the stage are dealers themselves. And that's by design. We don't have a lot of consultants and people who've never done it but like to talk about it.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

Because they're not we don't want them talking to our people.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, our industry doesn't take kindly to people who don't know how to actually do what they're saying.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

Um, I get told that a lot because you know, I've I've been in this a long time and people don't like that. So when you start talking about all the things that you you know, they are like, oh, okay, you actually know what you're talking about because you grew up on a lumbery art and you worked in a big door shop for 10 years. So but it's interesting when you think about what people are talking about. So what topics are gonna hit the stage at LBM Strategies this year?

Rick Schumacher:

The number one topic, there's I mean, it changes, there's tariffs, there's all kinds of things that hit. But the number one that chronic challenge is attracting, hiring, and retaining good people. So we have three companies that have been named a great place to work in their market, yeah, sharing how they do that.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay, who are they?

Rick Schumacher:

Okay, we have um Par Lumber. Yeah, we have Erie Materials, and we have uh Star Lumber.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh, okay.

Rick Schumacher:

So um, and they're they all have great stories. That's awesome. And we have um we're gonna have Ray Ray Hales, the C the well, the former co-owner of US of Walker Lumber, because they sold to USLBM. Yep. So he and I are gonna talk for a half hour just about the operational things they're doing. They have a thing where they they track how long it takes for people to get in and out of their yard. So they they time that. So it's the average is 17 minutes.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

So we're gonna talk about how they track getting people in and out in 17 minutes.

Stefanie Couch:

Is that from like the moment they walk in the door, take the order, checkout, and everything, or just get into the yard?

Rick Schumacher:

That's when from when they pull into this area. Okay, and then they when they pull out.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow, that's pretty cool. I mean, you see that at drive-throughs, it makes sense to use that type of technology in in a lumber yard as well. I mean, if it works for somebody like a Chick-fil-A or somebody like that to efficient make efficiency happen, it I think it's a good idea. Right. Yeah, you know, I talked to Scott Morrison yesterday, he's here with Do It Best, um, the member operations excellence guy, and he's got 40 years of experience, and we were talking about that because we laid out a door shop and uh laid out we had a hard choice to make. One way was gonna get us 400 more slots in the location, which was a lot in a big distribution facility. It was 170,000 square feet. The other way was gonna give us better fort lift flow flow. We chose the 400 spots, we chose wrong.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

Um, almost immediately we were like, this was a big mistake. And to unbolt down racking and relay out a shop like that with uh 1,500 plus things that are already filled with stuff. Yeah, it's I mean, the pain there is a lot. So getting something right like that, it's a big deal. And I think that that's something I hear a lot of people talk about. It's a cool program they have here at Do It Best to do that. I think it's uh it's gonna be very well received.

Rick Schumacher:

And Scott Morrison is very sharp. I've known him for years. Yeah, he's yeah, he's he knows he really knows the stuff on lean.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

And the yard design, yeah. He's very good.

Stefanie Couch:

And I'm sure he can walk in and kind of kind of see what needs to be done. But he he was actually saying that a lot of the people that he works with already kind of know what the problem and possible solution is. They just don't know exactly how to implement it. So that's what he's really helping them do, which is cool.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, tell me a little bit more about you have an award ceremony that you give out some awards at LBM Strategies, which you started, was it two years ago?

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, we started doing that yeah, two years ago.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay. Tell me about that.

Rick Schumacher:

Okay, so we well, we have um we have a few programs. We have our century club, which honors lumber dealers that have been around more than 100 years, which is awesome.

Stefanie Couch:

And it's really cool.

Rick Schumacher:

And and every and as we get uh like every year now, it's like it's kind of speeding up and we're getting more and more and more new members. Yeah. So it's really it's right now that like the total years, it's like 38,000 years total combined.

Stefanie Couch:

That is that is so I love that about our industry. It is a really interesting thing that I don't think many industries have that.

Rick Schumacher:

No, they I they for sure don't.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

So we so we recognize them. We recognize um we have a 40 under 40 that we started, and that was to honor um and celebrate the young leaders in our industry. And there are, even though there's it's a tough a lot of our um audience has a tough time attracting and hiring young people, yeah. There's some really, really sharp ones out there. So we actually have a panel, a one-hour panel discussion this year with a member of last year's 40 40 under 40 now um moderating it. Okay, with five members of this year's class on the panel. That'll be great. So it's gonna be talking about what they're looking for in their next adventure, how they can, how lumber dealers can attract young people.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

So that's gonna be good.

Stefanie Couch:

That'll be awesome. And I love that you're highlighting those people. I remember when I first got you know an award from something like that. It was like the best day of my life. Um, it really did inspire me to do more because it was like, okay, I I'm doing something, I'm working hard, I got recognized, and then it was like, I need to work harder, I need to do more. And then it also allowed me 40 under 40, you get to meet 39 other amazing comrades that are in the industry, most likely are not competitors, right? And you can band together and actually grow together, which is super cool. So you're making like a little club of just lumber yard and dealers that are awesome, and they're young people that are awesome in it. To I think that's cool.

Rick Schumacher:

And that's what and that's the whole building the community thing.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

Because that's my goal is to also, I mean, we want to do more things with do things to kind of organize them, keeping them together where they can build build the community and like bring in next year's people and next year's people, and like that. And it's just we're LBM journals a tiny, tiny team, so we don't have the you know bandwidth to do everything we want to do, but that's that's on our wish list.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, I'm sure you'll get there. It seems like you've been making big moves the last two years. So, I mean, the LBM strategies started as what like 200 people or something, and now it's like a it was like less than 100. Okay, so what did it sell out at this year?

Rick Schumacher:

Well, this year it sold out at 250 people.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow, that's amazing.

Rick Schumacher:

And we're and we're a month and a half away, so we could have easily gone a lot bigger. Yeah. And the goal isn't to make it big, the goal is just to and people have talked, it's like, how big do you want it to grow? It's like, I don't really want it. Yeah, it's about just we want to keep it where it works for everybody.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, I think it's really smart though to keep it exclusive where you don't have like it's not trying to sell as many tickets as you can. It's here's what we're gonna do. And if you want to come and you're the first 250, awesome. And if not, then see you next year. Next year, exactly. Where do you know where it's gonna be next year? Are you announcing?

Rick Schumacher:

I think we know where it's gonna be, but we're waiting until the we lock in all the hotel details.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay, well, I can't wait to hear about it.

Rick Schumacher:

That's we'll know that um soon.

Stefanie Couch:

That's awesome.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, it's gonna be good.

Stefanie Couch:

If you could tell the someone who is a younger person and is thinking about getting into the industry based on all the great conversations you have, I think there's a lot of opportunity in this industry, but people maybe don't know.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

What would be some things that you would tell people, younger people that are thinking about getting into this business?

Rick Schumacher:

I would tell them um that there's an incredible opportunity, that people are always gonna need houses, that the people who run lumber yards for the most part are just really, really good people. It's a really good community. And it's something where you can um you can start off working there in high school, you know, and then end up just running the company someday or opening your own. I mean, and there's you can earn a really good living.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

And it's not it's not sexy like whatever, Google or tech.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

But it's but it's real.

Stefanie Couch:

You know, Google got really unsexy when they laid off all those people the last few years.

Rick Schumacher:

That wasn't very sexy.

Stefanie Couch:

It was uh I had actually had someone I know that worked at Zoom and uh it didn't end well, and I'm like, yeah, those sexy tech jobs weren't really like too great when everybody got laid off. I think every industry has moments where it's hot to trot, and sometimes it just isn't. And our industry, you you mentioned the Century Club. I was just doing a engagement with Do It Best here, and we were talking about AI and social media and all the things, and I actually asked the room, there's like 120 people in there, how many of you have businesses that are older than 20 years? Basically the whole room, raise your hand. How many of you have 50 years? Oh at least half. How many are over 100? There was three, and so that was a room 120 people, so that's pretty darn cool that that many people have legacy businesses. I am seeing so many third generation, fourth generation come along and they've seen what their family has done, they want to do that plus some, they don't want to. Let down the legacy. Right. And they're trying to innovate. How do you think AI and technology and all the things that are coming so quickly down the pipeline? How's that going to affect our industry? What do you think the great opportunities are and what scares you?

Rick Schumacher:

You know, I think the AI used to be a lot more scary to me than it is now. Now that I'm I'm like using it more and playing around with it.

Stefanie Couch:

What's your preferred right now?

Rick Schumacher:

I've just been using Chat GPT.

Stefanie Couch:

It's pretty hard to beat Chat GPT.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, the Pro version. It's very good. But it is. There's just, I think there's um I don't think it's gonna replace people. No. I think it's I think it's just gonna be a tool for us to work smarter. And it's like any any other tool, people who get in early, you know, and and use it to their benefit. There's a absolutely there's a saying I have on my on my wallets um reality isn't the way it appears to be or the way you wish things to be, but the way things actually are. Either use reality to your benefit or it'll automatically work against you.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh, that's strong.

Rick Schumacher:

And the reality is that AI is here.

Stefanie Couch:

It is, and you know, one thing I talk about with people that I think I don't think people understand is you can start using AI and really get pretty good at it pretty quickly. You don't have to be a coder, you don't have to be good at tech. Everybody can use it, it'll teach you how to use itself. Right. That's the crazy part. It is the manual. Um, but the biggest thing I want people to know is we do not have 20 years of rev up period like we did with the internet. You will not have 10 years, 15 years, 20 years to get your computer and get the you know, the internet and the Wi-Fi slow and all those things. No, you have, I believe truly, we have an arbitrage moment, 18 to 24 months, and the whole world will be completely different. I it'll be probably faster than that, but I think in our industry we're still gonna hold back a little bit because we are so slow to change. I really believe in 18 to 24 months it looks totally different.

Rick Schumacher:

Well, we're doing so. Speaking of AI in the conference, we have we're starting off on our um our Wednesday afternoon, and we're doing an an AI workshop.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh, that'll be great.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, so that's gonna be 90 minutes deep dive into um how to use it practical, practical, tactical.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, and then the rest of the afternoon is the awards.

Stefanie Couch:

That'll be awesome.

Rick Schumacher:

It's gonna be fun.

Stefanie Couch:

It will be. I mean, there's everywhere I go, people are asking about AI, and I'm always surprised there's a lot of people in the room that have used it and some that have never tried it. Right. Um, and I think that's the fun part is it's not too late to get in on the game. Uh, it's not going away. And if you want to learn how to use it, if you just start with something small like Chat GPT, writing an email, or doing a I actually love to use it as a research assistant, you know. Uh before this podcast, you know, if I went in and put your name in, there's a lot of things out there about you because you're you're a media person. But even if someone doesn't have articles written by them or about them, or they don't have anything, if they just have a LinkedIn profile, you can at least get some tidbits from that to know about people. And I think one of the things I took actually bringing it back to Brad Jacobs, I thought one of the most interesting things in his book, he talks about going to school on people. And what he means by that is just, you know, researching and going deep dive into people. Um, he was actually on a podcast called the Founders Podcast. I don't know if you've ever listened to it. It's such a good podcast, you should check it out. Uh, this guy reads biographies of people and also does sometimes does interviews, but he read the book and did a deep dive. But he talks a lot about that. That's one of the things that makes him so good is he knows what he's going into. So before he came into this industry, and I think that's a big deal with AI, is you can do great research on people, on products, on trends, uh data analysis, you know, five minutes instead of 50 hours on a data spreadsheet. Right. Um, I'm not a lover of spreadsheets, Rick. I just, it's not my thing, but I can do it with AI and it's no big deal. So I love it. What's your favorite way to use AI?

Rick Schumacher:

But one way I used it, I hate spreadsheets too. I don't get Excel.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

So I but I needed a spreadsheet for to track our dealer profiles over the years.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

So I just so it knows it. My chat GPT is trained and knows who I am and knows what LBM journal is. So I asked it to make me a spreadsheet to track our dealer profiles.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Rick Schumacher:

And it made this elaborate, amazing spreadsheet.

Stefanie Couch:

It could probably give you some really cool data. If you put all your your um things, all the statistics you have and everything. I would love to see like what does an LBM knowledge hub look like? Because you know, we're at Grit Blueprint, we're building like a lot of custom knowledge hubs for people. I think if you did that, like you guys could do that yourself. And then you have all this data because you've got it from all these years. I mean, 20 20 plus years of man, I don't know how you would get all those records back of everything you've published.

Rick Schumacher:

We have we actually have it all digitally.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow.

Rick Schumacher:

And there's and actually the publishing conference I just came from, there's some big AI companies that are scraping and and grabbing the knowledge from publishers. And so publishers' website visits are going down, they're they're being they're they're losing business. Wow. So there's a a coalition of publishers, magazine publishers who you can join this coalition and then they will negotiate for you with a big AI company so that they can't just take your stuff. Yeah, they take it, but then they have to pay it.

Stefanie Couch:

That is one thing that I think is gonna be a negative from AI is that it will be hard to know what's real and what's not.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

And also intellectual property is gonna get really fuzzy really quickly.

Rick Schumacher:

Right.

Stefanie Couch:

Um, which you know, I I still think if you have an article that you wrote, it's gonna be people could go online and say say something from your article anyway and act like it's theirs, but it's just easier to get thousands of things at once instead of doing it one at a time, I guess. But for you guys, I would love to see that data part. That would be really cool.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, I'm kind of curious to see it too.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and I think we could do it with a knowledge hub. I know how how we would build it, but we should talk about that because there would just be probably some insane things that would come out, trends, things that we don't see. I mean, there are smarter people that can look through all the spreadsheets, but it's not gonna be me, that's for sure. But the AI can do it and then give it to us. Exactly. I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. If someone is interested in learning about working with LBM Journal, working with you and your team, you have a lot of ways that they can collaborate with you, whether they're a dealer, a vendor, a partner. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Rick Schumacher:

Just go to LBMjournal.com and um and see what we do. And if you do something, I mean if you're a dealer and you're doing cool things, write to me. Let me know. Um because we're always looking for dealers to profile. And we're um if you're a if you're a manufacturer, if you're something like that, you have something to sell, we have advertising.

Stefanie Couch:

So it's like there's digital advertising, print advertising, you guys got it all. But I do love that point about the dealers with the cool stories, yeah, because these people are often very humble, right? And they don't like to tell their stories because they feel like it's braggadocious, but it's not. And I would just say for the independent spirit, I think every time that the story, it's like every time an angel gets its wings, a bell rings. Right. Every time another independent dealer gets spotlighted and they get to tell their story, someone else reads that and thinks, I'm gonna go do more, I'm gonna go a little bit further, I'm gonna stay in this another generation because they want to be that or more in their own business. So I think it's very inspirational. And I do think we should all share our stories because visibility is really what leadership is all about. And I think the more you can lean into that, the better it is.

Rick Schumacher:

Yeah, and we and we've had some some people are scared because they've done like we've when I first started this, there was a I talked to some dealers and they said, Well, we did this once and we got burned. And it's like, well, how'd you get burned? Well, we were misquoted so or something. Yeah, and so we so now what we do is we just the dealers can they get to see what the story beforehand. So it's so it's a really their story. Yeah, but it they're they're not surprised when it comes out in print, it's like they feel good about it.

Stefanie Couch:

They kind of executive produce a little bit, right? Yeah, I don't I don't blame them for wanting to see it, you know. I I'm the same way, yeah, and I think that's that's good that you do that for sure.

Rick Schumacher:

What's their story? Yeah, I mean, we're just the we're just the messenger.

Stefanie Couch:

That's that's wonderful. Yeah, well, thank you for all you're doing for our industry, and thank you for telling the stories of the people that I love the most, the independents.

Rick Schumacher:

Well, thank you.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, and also I hope you have a wonderful market. It's gonna be a lot going on. There's a lot going on, and I there are 9,000 people here. So make sure you go and yes, I believe there's supposed to be 9,000 people here this week. So it is so break your walking shoes and go check out all of the cool stuff. I saw there's gonna be puppies um tomorrow. I don't know if you're a dog lover.

Rick Schumacher:

Golden retriever. We have three dogs, yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

I hope there's if there's golden retrievers, I promise you they will be in this podcast booth, and there won't be anyone on the earth that can keep me from bringing them in here. Not one person, Rick. Uh there last year at the spring market, there was adoptable puppies from the Humane Society, and they're gonna be here again this time. Are they? Yeah, Saturday and Sunday. I'm gonna bring them in here.

Rick Schumacher:

Are you gonna go home with one?

Stefanie Couch:

That sounds like a great idea, Rick. That sounds like a great idea. My husband's in the background, very upset that you threw that out there because it doesn't take much. I'm not actually allowed to go anywhere where free dogs are available because I'm just too weak of a person. So that's just not my strong suit. But hopefully, at least we can get one in here into the podcast booth.

Rick Schumacher:

There you go.

Stefanie Couch:

All right. Well, thank you for joining me on the grit blueprint. And if you are interested in working with Rick and LBM Journal, go to lbmjournal.com and we will see you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to the Grit Blueprint Podcast. If this episode helped you think a little differently about how to show up, share it with someone in your building world who needs it. If you're ready to turn visibility into growth, then head to gritblueprint.com to learn more and book a call to talk to us about your growth strategy. Until next time, stay unmistakable.

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