The Grit Blueprint

Riding the Wave of Change: Flanagan's Paint and Supply

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The building industry is experiencing a massive generational shift as younger leaders reshape businesses with new values and technological approaches, while facing the challenge of navigating rapid change.

• Jay Donnelly has grown Flanagan's Paint and Supply from one to five stores since joining his father's business in 2010
• Making friends is the foundation of the paint business – relationships remain central even as technology advances
• The millennial generation is approaching business ownership differently, prioritizing work-life balance
• Buying existing businesses is often smarter than "greenfielding" when entering the industry
• Industry associations like NHPA and buying groups provide crucial support and knowledge-sharing opportunities
• Inventory management remains a significant challenge for paint and hardware retailers
• Business opportunities are abundant regardless of market conditions when market share is still available to capture
• AI and new technologies should be implemented strategically to solve specific operational pain points
• Creating exceptional experiences for both customers and employees is essential for long-term success

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Stefanie Couch:

There is this big wave coming. You can't boil the ocean, but you've got to just literally get in your little canoe and just go. Some of us are up for the challenge. We're excited about it. We think we're up for the challenge.

Jay Donnelly:

I'm not sure. We don't know. We're going to find out one way or another. There's too many opportunities of acquisitions that you don't need to do greenfielding.

Stefanie Couch:

I think if you can buy a business that's already existing, has the relationships and is already profitable, it is still hard, but it is not as hard.

Jay Donnelly:

And what's really cool about these vendors like Do it Fast, true Value. I'm not a hardware store, but I learned so much from their members. It's crazy. They're helping everyone. There's a lot of joy in that. I wish more people could see it.

Stefanie Couch:

Welcome to the Grit Blueprint Podcast, the playbook for building unmistakable brands that grow, lead and last in the built world. I'm Stefanie Couch, the founder of Grit Blueprint, and I'm a lifelong building industry insider. I was raised here, built my career here, and now my team and I help others win here. The truth is, you can be the best option in your space and still lose to someone else who simply shows up better and more consistently Each week. On the Grit Blueprint, I'm going to show you how to stand out, earn trust and turn your brand into a competitive advantage that lasts. If you're ready to be seen, known, chosen and become unmistakable, you're in the right place. Let's get started. Welcome to the Great Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Stefanie Couch, and I'm here today, live in Orlando with Jay Donnelly, and you are actually an owner of a paint store, so tell me a little bit about Flanagan's Paint and Supply.

Jay Donnelly:

Yes, we're out of St Louis Missouri. Five stores spread out all over the metro. One store is even on the Illinois side. We have like 20, 25 employees. My dad bought the business back in 2005. And it was just one store, and I came on board in 2010. And from there we've grown it to five stores.

Stefanie Couch:

That's so cool, and you and I have been talking this week, so we're at IHI. You were in my sessions earlier branding and AI and we had a really good conversation. We actually built something during the AI session for you a little promo, which is GPT yes. And you're a very innovative leader. You're an NHPA board member.

Stefanie Couch:

You are doing lots of cool stuff with educating and trying to bring our industry into, I guess we might say 2025. Right, so tell me a little bit about how you work with your business to try to handle things that are changing so much, because we've talked about being seen and getting out there and then using AI to do that.

Jay Donnelly:

What I'm doing now is going to be changing, obviously because I've learned a ton this week, but really, you know it goes back to making friends is our business and you know we just happen to sell paint and so, like everything I do, everything I throw, my day always reflects back to that Like am I making a friend? Because if we're not doing that, then that's we're not going to be able to work with this right.

Stefanie Couch:

So I really the part of my day I enjoy the most is work, you know just getting out meeting other small business owners and letting them know I'm a small business owner and you're selling paint and paint products, benjamin Moore dealer and we were talking a little bit about contractors and and how do you make their business easier, how do you help them get more leads, get all these things? It's a big problem that I talk to a lot of business owners and I think everyone's trying to solve that. But one of the things I want to ask you about because I think there's no real perfect solution for any of these problems but we have a lot of aging members of our hardware paint building industry community. A lot of owners are 60 to 70 probably-ish Easily and the things that are happening in our industry right now the way AI is changing things, the way stuff is actually changing every week. Right, we were talking why would someone that age not just say I'm not going to go through this? How do we handle that in our industry?

Jay Donnelly:

You know, we've got to bring that next generation to do this with us.

Jay Donnelly:

And right now. The problem with next generation is that they're seeing what their moms and dads and grandparents have done, like I'm not going down that road, where I've seen, like I can make that change If I can build my network I met you this week. I can definitely. I've learned a ton, thank you, and I think we just got to take the next generation. Like, looking at All Pro, they have a group called Next Gen and taking that group and, you know, really getting them to understand, hey, here, it's going to be really good. We just got to get there and it's, you know, for some people they're at different spots and I think we just have to work together, yeah, and try to utilize the sources to for everyone to use. Um, I don't.

Jay Donnelly:

I think one of the struggles I see is that everyone's trying to like build their own wheel yeah, solve it in their restaurant right and uh, you even saw it in some of the panels because you're like you're who's in hardware sales out in the Pacific Northwest? He has the same challenges as me. Yeah, I'm like he's the relationship guy of it. He's like how do I keep trucking?

Stefanie Couch:

I'm like we probably should be working together to figure this out Well and also thinking about how do we use technology to allow us to not do some of that? I'll call it busy work. It's very important stuff more admin type tasks so that you can do what only you can do. That's the thing that I think is so hard to solve is, you're the face of the business, you're the person that's the sales front, lead, making relationships happen, and you're only one person. So, unless we do a Dolly the sheep program with Jay, or maybe could do that, that is one solution.

Stefanie Couch:

But I do think with AI we can replicate some of those things, maybe your voice, direct content, maybe something where you know you're typing emails quicker so you have more time to call customers, or whatever those things are. That's what I want to solve is figuring out how do we keep the good parts of the business. I believe that in the, at least in our lifetimes, we just found out we're literally the exact same age. I'm 10 days older. I'm pretty upset about that, but at the end of the day, it's a relationship business. It's going to be a relationship business. It has to be.

Stefanie Couch:

But if we can take those other cool things like AI and use that to give us more time to build relationships, that's where we cook with gas right, that's where we can level up Absolutely, and so if we can solve that, I mean I think it's huge. What do you think the opportunity is for young leaders, people who want to start a business, don't already have one, or somebody like you that already has? You know some stores with the older generation getting ready. There's a big statistic out there that a lot of businesses are going to close. They will not sell. These people have worked their entire lives to build something and because they just say I'm done or I can't sell, I don't know who to sell to. They're just out. What's the opportunity for people like you? Oh, it's endless, but I think it's also don't know who to sell to. They're just out. What's the opportunity for people like you?

Jay Donnelly:

oh, it's endless. But I think it's also like you've got to be very strategic and you've got to be very you need to walk. You know everyone's talking about how everything's moving so fast and, like you know you look at acquisitions. It's you need to really, you know, look at what every aspect of it is, and I think utilizing ai to do some of this stuff is going to be a game changer, uh, in making decisions. Um the back to the question of, like you know, how how do we get someone?

Stefanie Couch:

I don't know the answer, yeah I?

Jay Donnelly:

I mean I get a lot of phone calls every day from the 60 to 70 year old who's got a son in this business or a daughter in this business and I'm like starting to think they're burning out.

Stefanie Couch:

And.

Jay Donnelly:

I'm like well, I think they are, and I think it's because the millennial generation is not going to do what their parents did. Like you know, I say this and I'm so fortunate that my mom and dad have given me the, you know, the, the playground, call it right to. That's something I love, I'm extremely passionate about, but, like, the best thing I do is I pick my kids up from school yeah five days a week at 250.

Jay Donnelly:

I'm in the parking lot, I pick my kids up like it is the coolest thing and like people ask what? What do you mean? It's like I go to these conferences and what all these 60, 70 year old men tell me. I don't really remember when my kids were young yeah I was always at the store. I was at the paint store, I was at the paint store, I was at the hardware store. I was in an aisle stocking shelves on Sunday.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Jay Donnelly:

I'm now like, oh, that's not even an option for me, Like I'm not going to go down that road. And so I do. I tell this story often because I want young people in their 30s and young 40s to say okay, it is possible.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, and I think there is an opportunity also for people that want to get out of a corporate job they hate. They want to have ownership. I think that's something that's very important to me. It's to have something that you have built that you also own long term. And then, with AI coming, I do think there are a lot of these more white collar jobs that might be gone, and people are always going to need to buy paint and people are going to need to buy hardware and they're going to need lumber and doors and all those things, and I don't see a robot being able to do that anytime soon.

Jay Donnelly:

I would agree. Now I will say, Stefanie, a huge part of our business now is delivery. I mean, it's mind-boggling how much paint we're delivering and I think that's going to increase. But again, as far as tending a gallon of paint and doing a color match and helping pick out the wallpaper and, honestly, the whole experience of picking out colors is for our industry. It's about creating an experience, and that's that's my biggest like. That's what I challenge myself with every day. Shame on myself for, you know, not doing a good job these last couple years of really focusing on the experience. And it's not just a customer experience, it's the employees experiences, you know. And so I'm taken away from this meeting. Specifically, how do I, how do I balance that? You know, customer experience is huge, but I want to make sure my staff is still having fun. We've got a new, a new guy doing a lot of our social media content and he's like just loving life and it's so fun to see, like the videos they're creating.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, that's really cool, but well and and I think that's the thing is, if you can figure out, you know, I think it's sort of cliche, but like how to make work fun but it won't always be perfect, it's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows, but I also think, allowing people to have a culture of failure to try things, it's not going to be great all the time and we screw up a lot and it's okay.

Stefanie Couch:

Like there's things that happen, like today we were filming this thing and we're in the middle like a very emotional interview moment and the camera went out, like the sd card, and I'm like, of course, this is like the tearjerker moment, it's like, oh, pause, but things just happen. And so if you can breed that in resiliency and also the hey, let's go and do something that's never been done, let's try some things right and what's the worst that can happen idea, I think it's cool to see that right now, my 10 year old is going through the 10 year old phase with their emotion and that's one of the things we've been coached on is like what's the worst that's going to happen?

Jay Donnelly:

it's just paint, you know, um, try it. You know, throw. Throw something at the wall if it sticks, it's, you know, try it. You know, throw something at the wall. If it sticks, it's great. If it doesn't move on. I've done that for 16 years.

Stefanie Couch:

It's the only way to be an entrepreneur. If you don't have that spirit, I don't think you'll ever survive.

Jay Donnelly:

The question I have for you do you think there's a lot of people in the world right now that have that spirit and have the ability to have the passion? Or are there a lot of people thinking, oh, I can be an entrepreneur and it's you know, set it and forget it. Yeah, this channel's not that no, I, I don't think.

Stefanie Couch:

I think, uh, when I started my business the first like two months I had left my corporate job. My horse got fired. But, um, I thought I was like, why is everyone not an entrepreneur? You know, I was feeling good. It was still hard because we were scared we weren't gonna make it, we didn't have any money, but it was like this is free, you know. And then about six months in I was like, oh yeah, this is for five percent of people, maybe five percent. Yeah, because it's hard. But especially if I really think the bridge and this is where I think we can get more people in it I think if you can buy a business that's already existing, has the relationships and is already profitable and you can get some maybe owner financing or something interesting like that and there are a lot of people out there that I think if you can start to get people to do that, it is still hard. But it is not as hard Greenfielding something we talked a little bit, we both greenfielded.

Stefanie Couch:

So as hard greenfielding something we talked a little bit, we both greenfielded. So I'm greenfielding this company, but I also greenfielded under the helm of a very large company, but two very big door shops. Okay, oh gosh the work. Yeah, it is so hard to greenfield and for those who don't know what that word means, it's a little industry term but it means you go and you do something from scratch. No customers, no building, no nothing. It's hard. You've done that two or three times now. Three, three Okay. If you cannot have to do that, if you can buy something and then just make it better with your spend, your tech, your marketing, whatever, I think that's the secret.

Jay Donnelly:

It is. I mean, there's no doubt about it. There's too many opportunities of acquisitions that you don't need to do greenfielding.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, I agree with you, and there's also a lot of resources. So there are companies like I'm sure that in HPA they have actually a business forsell board, I think and there's other companies and other organizations that do this but kind of do matchmaking almost Like hey, I know Jake's looking for this, I know Stefanie's looking for that, here's the area we're in, and then if some person says, hey, I'm out, I'm good, like I need to get out of this, then we can kind of help put those people together. So that's for if you're, you know, out there and you're looking for an opportunity, maybe you have a little cash that you got that to invest in something. You want something different, you're tired of that cubicle. Uh, buy a paint or hardware store and buy one that's already existing and thriving.

Jay Donnelly:

Yeah, my big challenge with brick and mortar and like a retail business is honestly for a new person entering it's inventory costs.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Jay Donnelly:

You know, like I had a conversation with one of our, my mentors, and he's like, where, where's your, where are you at on inventory? And I'm like, oh it's, it's a lot of money and it's sitting on a shelf. Yes, it's producing money when it sells, but up until that point it's just. You know, like I've started teaching my staff like, hey, you know, you're using a dead doorstop over there. What's the most expensive doorstop you've ever bought? And they're like I don't know, $3. I'm like, well, that five-gallon bucket of paint that's been there for three months, that's about a $150 doorstop you're using, yeah. And they're like, holy god, you know they don't think about that, right. And so I look at my stores and I look at inventory. I just see 100 bills. That's all it is to me. I really hope, I hope vendors start to see some of these inventory struggles, whether it's hardware, paint stores, and help facilitate how to stock stores better.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, people don't understand turns and all that stuff and like paint has an actual shelf life, but it's more about just it's been sitting there. I remember this is actually an interesting thing because you have a paint store and love it. But my dad's least favorite item in our store was paint.

Stefanie Couch:

He literally hated it. And you know why? Because it's just so easy to screw up, which you know. Doors and windows are a lot more expensive and they screw up pretty easy too. But he loved lumber. He was a lumber man and so we got rid of paint and I remember he was like this is the best day of his life because he had so many paint cans that were mismixed and to put $2 on it or whatever. But there's always high stakes in any business with that and you get an inventory buy wrong. You think something's going to hit it, doesn't? There is a lot that can be done there. So I think it is about it's a little bit of a wild ass, guess, right, yeah, but it's also a little bit of a hey, let's see. Like you said, the sharing information. Maybe somebody's already done that or tried it, or you know, maybe there's resources in these associations that can help you know what's coming.

Jay Donnelly:

Right Cool, nhpa is working on a lot of that stuff, which is a lot of fun to be able to see.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and you're doing some cool stuff, so tell me a little bit about your work with NHPA. I know you're also a big part of All Pro, tell me about that.

Jay Donnelly:

So with NHPA, it's probably been one of the greatest opportunities someone gave me. It was like you know, go do this. It's against the norm. The rest of your channel's really not active at all. And you know, the cool thing they've got going right now that they're rolling out here is they're it's called Retail Wise and it's going to be. They're taking all their content and putting it into like little three minute micro videos and that we can now turn and send out. You know, forklift training to everyone in our company that's responsible for forklift off. You know, bam, they get a three minute like and they'll be an avatar and the avatar could be me. I could have my dad be the avatar, that's cool.

Jay Donnelly:

I think that's one of the really neat things they're doing. You know All Pro, like I mean they're so All Pro is if you're in the paint business, you've you know they are the backbone of that industry, really putting you know together. And so I'm so fortunate that I've been able, like my you know my dad's allowed me to be to network and build a network and there's a guy similar age to us yesterday that he goes. Man I've, I've been working on my dad for 10 years because I've watched you do it and he's like I want to do it now, like I'm pushing my dad to let me have the freedom. Yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, you're really paving the way and I will say, well, first of all, I sensed your energy, like immediately You're really fun to be around, so that's great. And you're hungry and I love being around other hungry people. I think we kind of see that in each other and you know, when you do find those people, if you can get around them, more iron does sharpen iron and you have learned things that I don't know and vice versa, and I think people are pretty open, especially when they're hungry. If you're not in direct competition with each other, which most of us aren't you're going to share, because if I can help you make your business better, I see that hunger, that fire in you, and it's really cool to be able to do that for each other. So I love that.

Stefanie Couch:

I feel like there's this whole wave of I guess it's millennials Some of them are younger than that, you know, 30 to 45 year olds that we're taking over the next generation of our family businesses or we're building our own legacy, however it works. But there is this big wave coming and I think some of us are up for the challenge. We're building our own legacy, however it works. But there is this big wave coming and I think some of us are up for the challenge we're excited about it.

Jay Donnelly:

We think we're up for the challenge. We're not sure, we don't know. We're going to find out one way or another.

Stefanie Couch:

But I do think that's exciting and so every time I come to something like this and I meet someone like you which I'm fairly certain we've met before, but I can't figure out, we couldn't figure out where, but I know that it's going to be okay, because there are people like you that are hungry enough to go figure it out and that's exciting to me. And I think there's also other support, like the nhpa. You know like we're here with new at best and true value.

Jay Donnelly:

There's other people that are helping make that work and what's really cool about these vendors like do it best, true value. Like I'm not a hardware store, I don't it's. I have conversations with them, but I learned so much from their members. It's crazy, yeah. And I think it's really cool how they didn't fight, like it was an open door on tuesday, right. Like I mean that you didn't have to be a do it best person. They're helping everyone. Yeah, that's the. There's a lot of joy in that.

Jay Donnelly:

Like yeah I wish more people could see it.

Stefanie Couch:

So I am curious you were in the visibility session. We talked about branding, more traditional marketing stuff, and then you were in the AI session. So I'm curious some of the things that piqued most of your interest or made you think about something differently from those sessions.

Jay Donnelly:

So the statistic you shared about the 45 billion searches a day and how Google's only getting 18% of it.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah.

Jay Donnelly:

Like that, that's wild. And then I would say you shared so much, to be honest, like it's I. I think for me it's just trying to take. I need to go back and look at you know, take three points from this whole week because, honestly, it's almost overwhelming. It is, it's a lot.

Stefanie Couch:

I try to taper those sessions down as much as. That's why I say a lot during it, Like just pick one thing. You can't, you cannot do everything that's out there, Like there's just no way to.

Jay Donnelly:

you can't boil the ocean but you've got to just literally get in your little canoe, yeah, and just just just go. Well, the thing I would ask from like you, like what would be cool, is like if you, if you, were able to take that presentation on both those right and every other week, just send a little thing a reminder, you know, hey, here's a free reminder of yeah what we talked about, that it's already done.

Stefanie Couch:

It's already the contents content, or a three-minute video maybe, or something.

Jay Donnelly:

Yeah, yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

Okay, got it. Yeah, so we're building a series called Built to Win, and that's kind of the idea around it. Okay, because I do think that it's really hard, you come here. It's kind of like summer camp. I don't know, did you ever go?

Stefanie Couch:

to summer camp or something, when you're a kid and you go and you're like sure, like I'm going to win, and then you get home and life hits Right and you then those people call and the guys at the counter or your, you know the problem comes and it's like that energy and all the ideas are amazing, but you it's so much. So how do you? You tailor that down to something, number one, you can accomplish and number two, that will actually help your business, because just because it's a cool idea or it's something that will work for someone doesn't mean it's the best thing for you.

Jay Donnelly:

So my takeaway from IHI conference is to go back and sit down with Tony, who's my general manager, first, and just lay out where are all his pain points in our operation. From there go to each one of our store managers. I need to compile the list his pain points and our operation. From there go to each one of our store managers what are? And just, I need to compile the list because then I I have a starting point Right and I don't think if we just if we just keep throwing darts at all this stuff, that's going to burn people out. Yeah, I need to figure out what all they are.

Jay Donnelly:

And then is there solutions with AI or you know, and they have to be the right solution, right, and you know, if it's not a hundred percent, then we're not going to. We'll just leave it on the list. Six months we look at it again. So I think that's my biggest takeaway. Even like compiling, like from your seminars, I sat, I presented both days on business to business And'll be honest, like that, I met ty for the first time and I learned a ton from him. You know that I'm like we're up here together and like, and he told me the same thing. He's like I never thought about doing that.

Stefanie Couch:

I'm like I was shocked that the room was full on both my presentations and I was like panels, I was like holy cow that's awesome people are interested in this segment, so yeah and I think think people are really excited about coming in and growing in a way that people say it's a down market. But I think, yeah, I don't really listen to that that much, because here's the deal If you have 100% market share, sure that matters. If you have less than 20, 30% market share, it doesn't matter.

Jay Donnelly:

It's endless, like when I, my dad, when he first came to me to get this business. Like jay, you realize like we could grow 25 year over year over year over year for another 15 years and still not be not even scratch the surface. Yeah, yeah and that's cool, that's fun, like that's when I talk to my staff, even like, like, you know, like guys, the opportunity for us is endless. Yeah, like, yeah, there's frustrating and customers we don't want to deal with. Move on, there's so many more that we want you know Exactly.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, that's great. Well, I am so excited we get to talk. Thank, you for joining me on the Grit Blueprint. I think we're going to be friends for a long time. I love your energy and I'm really excited about what you're doing and to know you, so thank you so much.

Jay Donnelly:

Thank you for helping this industry. That means the world to you know. I can tell you to our generation that someone sees like, hey, there's a value here, let's jump in, let's take this project on together. So thank you.

Stefanie Couch:

You're welcome. I appreciate it All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Grit Blueprint podcast. If this episode helped you think a little differently about how to show up, share it with someone in your building world who needs it. If you're ready to turn visibility into growth, then head to gritblueprintcom to learn more and book a call to talk to us about your growth strategy. Until next time, stay unmistakable.

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