The Grit Blueprint

Secrets to Standing Out: Digital Beacon Award Winner, Pat Sullivan | Sponsored by Do it Best Group

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This episode is sponsored by Do it Best Group!

Pat Sullivan with Sullivan Hardware and Garden, shares his journey of transforming a family hardware business into an award-winning retail destination by choosing entertainment over price competition. He reveals how creating emotional connections with customers has made Sullivan's Hardware successful despite big box and online competition.

• Family business started in 1954, purchased by Pat in 1989
• Four uniquely different stores throughout Indianapolis area
• Identified five areas to lead in: lawn & garden, barbecue grills, patio furniture, fireplaces, and artificial Christmas trees
• Shifted from traditional circular marketing to digital content focused on entertainment
• Added a gift shop that now generates millions in revenue
• Learned that "money follows attention" and adapted as attention shifted to digital platforms
• Uses humor and self-deprecating content to connect with customers emotionally
• Led by daughter-in-law Arden who transitioned from chiropractor to digital marketing leader
• Greatest compliment: "When I'm having a bad day, I come to your store just to walk around"
• Recently won the Digital Beacon Award at the Independent Hardware Industry convention

If you're ready to turn visibility into growth, head to gritblueprint.com to learn more and book a call to talk about your growth strategy. Until next time, stay unmistakable.


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Pat Sullivan:

Here's the internet. So on this side we have Amazon, you have Lowe's. They're all over here. They're fighting for all of this, and over here it's fun. It's puppy dogs, kitty cats. Where do you want to be? Yeah, when do you think your business fits? We still have a presence over here, but where we're building our business is over here on the front.

Stefanie Couch:

Money follows attention. Attention shifts. It was in the circulars 35 years ago, and so if you're not willing to shift where you put your time and your effort and your business to get attention, then you probably will end up losing. You can't just get complacent and it sounds like some things have worked. As we all know, in business some things really don't work.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, they don't.

Stefanie Couch:

And that's why you just keep swinging at it. Welcome to the Grit Blueprint Podcast, the playbook for building unmistakable brands that grow, lead and last in the built world. I'm Stefanie Couch, the founder of Grit Blueprint, and I'm a lifelong building industry insider. I was raised here, built my career here, and now my team and I help others win here. The truth is, you can be the best option in your space and still lose to someone else who simply shows up better and more consistently Each week. On the Grit Blueprint, I'm going to show you how to stand out, earn trust and turn your brand into a competitive advantage that lasts. If you're ready to be seen, known, chosen and become unmistakable, you're in the right place. Let's get started. Thank you for joining me on the Grit Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Stefanie Couch, and I'm here today with the man of the hour, pat Sullivan. Last night you won a Beacon Award, so congratulations on that.

Pat Sullivan:

Thank you very much.

Stefanie Couch:

And you gave a riveting, hilarious speech. You had the whole crowd roaring with laughter.

Pat Sullivan:

I always say I'm just a village idiot.

Stefanie Couch:

So everyone loves the village.

Pat Sullivan:

idiot, I know, you know what there's not enough village idiots, probably in the world.

Stefanie Couch:

Definitely not in our industry, you know. So I think it stands out Well. You actually won an award last night for the Digital Beacon Award, so we're going to dig in today. I want to get started talking a little bit about all the amazing things you're doing at Sullivan's.

Pat Sullivan:

Oh, great, thank you.

Stefanie Couch:

Tell me a little bit about you and your store. You've been in the business a long time, great.

Pat Sullivan:

Family business, right? Yes, family business. My father started in 1954. Wow. And then I came along when I was in like third grade, so I've literally spent my entire life on one corner, even though we have other stores our main stores that you know.

Stefanie Couch:

So it sounds like a CCR song down on the corner.

Pat Sullivan:

Down on the corner. The only the biggest move we made was from one corner to the other corner in 1981. And that was. That was big it was. I missed the other corner.

Stefanie Couch:

That's funny. Well, you know, you bought the business in 1989 from your family, 1989. 89. And you're one of seven siblings and you bought the business.

Pat Sullivan:

Yes.

Stefanie Couch:

How did that go?

Pat Sullivan:

With my other siblings Well, I have five sisters we were a really small hardware store. So when I started working and then we moved to the other corner in 81, 82, we had been on that corner since 1963. We had my father had a previous store in downtown Indianapolis and he moved around the corner about 75 blocks so it kind of moved to the edge of town but anyway. So it was just a small store. So my other siblings they're all educated and stuff. You know I'm actually the only one without a college degree. So I did go to college for just three days.

Stefanie Couch:

Was it the best three days of your life?

Pat Sullivan:

I actually went down a week early, two weeks, so I joined a fraternity, had that experience, and then I had a bowling class and my bowling professor kind of really changed my life. Yeah, really set me.

Stefanie Couch:

Sometimes all it takes is three days.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, and so I quit, soon enough that I got all my money back. I went home because I really thought I cannot be hung over this much. So then, that way I went home. I bought a house when I was 18 and went to work.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, so Well, I grew up in a hardware store too. Actually, my dad owned a hardware store in Lumberyard and I had a very similar experience. But I did go to college and I came right back and ran the hardware store in Lumberyard and you know, I never wanted to do anything else, I just felt like I was built for business Did you feel that way?

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, I did. I knew it's always what I wanted to do is I really enjoyed it? I'm just kind of a daydreamer too. You know they probably have letters to describe that now, don't they?

Stefanie Couch:

There's a lot of testing now, I'm sure.

Pat Sullivan:

I'm sure you'd fail. I would have failed all of those.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, I want to talk a little bit about what you're doing today, because you guys have a really cool business. You have four stores.

Pat Sullivan:

Yes.

Stefanie Couch:

Tell me where the stores are, tell me a little bit about the business as it stands today, and then I want to get into some of the marketing and digital stuff.

Pat Sullivan:

So, first of all, the genius that I am, I have four stores. They're all different, yeah, so really it's really kind of hard to market them. So, from I have a little store in Cicero, indiana. It's just a plain hardware store not just plain, but it's a nice little hardware store. And then we have a store in the historic part of Indianapolis Actually, this was my idea, it's right by the governor's mansion and I thought if I moved there I could get some state business. Yeah, it didn't work, so, but it's really cool. You have to do a little different thing. Yeah, I thought if I moved there I could get some state business. Yeah, it didn't work, so, but it's really cool.

Stefanie Couch:

Evidently you have to do a little different thing than just live next door.

Pat Sullivan:

I thought if I, you know, we were neighbors. You know, maybe throw me a contract over the fence.

Pat Sullivan:

The governor is not Mr Rogers, evidently no no, so, but it's a really cool area and we have a 6,000 square foot store and then about a 3,000 or 4,000 square foot greenhouse and it really is, and the people I mean are so dedicated. Our customers are so dedicated to that store. It's just, it really is a great one. And then our Keystone store is kind of where 71st and Keystone is where I've spent my life. You know, my dad probably was smarter and he saw what was coming. He thought I need to get the hell out of here. So he sold it to me and it just things were changing so quick All of a sudden. You know, we had some regional box stores like. But then you know, lowe's was the first one to town and at the time Lowe's was kind of like, you know, everybody puts four stores, you know, northeast, west, south. Well then you know, one landed right on top of us and so things were changing rapidly.

Pat Sullivan:

And yeah, I, you know we still had great customers and we were always strong in lawn and garden. So we had that. But we had I always called the sympathy business. People come in, they get something, they go, they go. We always bought our hardware from your daddy and it's like that's great, but I wanted people excited to come in my store. I didn't really once. I take that back. We rung up the sympathy business. We took the sympathy business, but I really wanted more. I wanted excitement. So, you know, we started doing some traveling and we were already strong in, like I say, lawn and garden. But I thought if I could just be a good hardware store and then kind of be a leader, and we picked, we said we wanted to be a leader in five things, yeah, and so that's what we did.

Stefanie Couch:

What five things.

Pat Sullivan:

Lawn and garden was a natural Okay. Barbecue grills we want it to be kind of the grill, and then mid-price patio furniture was going to be a big one. Fireplaces and this is weird, I know it's going to sound weird Artificial Christmas trees. So we failed in fireplaces and it's important because you don't everything doesn't always work out Fireplaces. It turned out. First of all, we had a beautiful display. We had eight working fireplaces.

Stefanie Couch:

But it was pretty hot in there.

Pat Sullivan:

Hell, yes, it was, and that was the problem. We could never run them. It was so hot. It's like I just never see that's the problem we could never run them. It was so hot. No, it's like I just never see. That's the problem. No education, I never made the connection.

Stefanie Couch:

You didn't think about that.

Pat Sullivan:

That it was going to be really hot and the other thing turns out nobody really changes their gas logs. All that often.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, it's kind of a one and done.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, you get them, and that's it. Yeah, so along we picked up gift and, in kind of a very odd way, our furniture. So we opened, so we built a new store behind our store on Keystone Avenue. We opened in 2004 at this store and it went really well. I mean, like it was an instant kind of success, I would say.

Pat Sullivan:

The way I bought our property, which was also I was just like buying up a neighborhood, which was really odd. But so there was an old farmhouse that we had owned since 1973, kind of the farmhouse for that area, and so we needed more space for patio furniture. So we are decided to build, you know, like a porch on it, three-sided porch for all of our patio furniture in addition to what we had in the store. And so it was really cool that we painted the farmhouse yellow and it kind of stood out and someone came in and said, hey, what are you going to do with the inside? So I don't know, she goes. What about a gift shop? So then that's how we ended up with a gift shop and that does a couple million dollars a year.

Stefanie Couch:

It's such a great idea. My actually town I live in a little small town in Georgia and they have a great store that I mean they do a ton on gifting.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah.

Stefanie Couch:

And for a long time it was almost the only place to get like a wedding registry anywhere, because there was no big box anywhere. Now there are some, but people love it and it's. I buy Christmas gifts there a lot. It's just so great. I love it and it's. I buy Christmas gifts there a lot. It's just so great. They gift wrap for free so I can have something beautiful purchased, don't have to wrap it.

Pat Sullivan:

It is such, it's just. You know retailers are always looking for things that we can be the best at that. You know that we can't get hurt by the box stores, and that's one of them. I mean Lowe's. Like we sell dresses, ladies' dresses, and like you don't see any dresses at Lowe's, do you?

Stefanie Couch:

No, I got to come to the store. Do you have hats?

Pat Sullivan:

Yes, we have hats.

Stefanie Couch:

Oh well, we need to set this up. If you have pink hats, I'm all in.

Pat Sullivan:

I'm not sure that we have pink hats Well.

Stefanie Couch:

I'll tell you when I'm I might be stretching it on that one. I'll tell you when I'm coming. Maybe you can't get rest on your laurels. You can't just get complacent. And it sounds like some things have worked. As we all know, in business, some things really don't work.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, they don't, and that's why you just keep swinging at it.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and you have done a lot on the digital side. So you talked a lot about being different, standing out. I obviously resonate with that deeply. I love to figure out a way to make people pay attention to your business, especially in a place that maybe it is a little boring by nature. And you won this Digital Beacon Award for the first time this year here at IHI. Tell me about what you guys are doing with your marketing, because marketing, in my opinion, for most business owners in the hardware lumber building industry it's kind of a cuss word and not the kind you like to use.

Stefanie Couch:

It's the type of word that is a waste of money. You can't track it, you know not really sure if it's worth it. We have word of mouth, but you guys have flipped that on its head. Tell me what you're doing at Sullivan.

Pat Sullivan:

Well, what we aren't doing is we were I mean, maybe it's our large metro area, I mean this, the circulars that we were doing just they just weren't pulling like they would. I remember back, way back when I was a kid, it's like when we put a circular it was huge, yeah, and so then we realized it's like, you know, after the box stores, of course, then here can, here comes the, the internet. Who thought that was going to make it right? I'm still not sold on that thing.

Stefanie Couch:

Still iffy whether the World Wide Web is really going to continue to be worldwide.

Pat Sullivan:

A little touch and go on that thing, amazon. So then you're dealing with that. So then we went from the box store thing where we tried to put in some cool things and be a leader and all those things. Well then here comes the internet and the internet that you know. So then we realized it was entertainment. So then we had to become an entertainment venue and that's kind of what we've done and we have a lot of fun with social media and, as I said last night, it's like I wish I remembered his name.

Pat Sullivan:

He's I don't think he's at Do it Best anymore, but you know, we were all fired up. You know we need to sell online, like everybody else. And he goes, he just puts up his hands like this here's the internet. So on this side we have Amazon, you have Lowe's, we have probably Sears. Yeah, jcpenney, jcpenney, they're all over here. They jc penny, jc penny, they're all over here. They're fighting for you know all, all of this and this is a long time ago, you know so and over here it's fun, it's puppy dogs, kitty cats, you know. And he just said where do you, where do you want to be? Yeah, where do you think your business fits, you want to go over here and mix it up, or you want to. And so I realized it's like, oh, you know, it's like, yeah, we still have a presence over here, but where we're building our business is over here on the fun side and what I love about that is, first of all, kudos to this like guy who's a pariah at in the internet age.

Pat Sullivan:

What was this like in the late 90s, early 2000s, yeah, I would say probably around 2005 to 2010, somewhere.

Stefanie Couch:

It's pretty perceptive to pick up on that back then and then also.

Pat Sullivan:

We should name him, I have no idea who it was. Let's call him Jim.

Stefanie Couch:

Jim so anyway, Jim said that Jim knew what he was talking about, but Jim helped. You see that this over here.

Pat Sullivan:

I have a tattoo of Jim's name, art Jim.

Stefanie Couch:

Jim helped you see that this over here I have a tattoo of Jim's name Heart Jim. I was wondering what that was peeking over your sleeve there, Jim really helped.

Stefanie Couch:

You see that this is a blue ocean. You know puppy dogs, kitty cats, cat videos. I like many Highland Cow videos and Golden Retriever videos personally. That's my thing, that's what my feed is, and you know pink shoes and things like that, but at the end of the day that was a blue ocean opportunity for you. Somewhere where no one else is really swimming. It feels really wildly uncomfortable to most people in our industry to swim in a place that's fun and out there and maybe makes you look a little less than professional and buttoned up.

Pat Sullivan:

I know and that is a little problem, Not a problem, but it's just different and maybe a lot of industries, like you know, we have some really, really talented businessmen and they're not, you know, not used to. I do a lot of stupid things on the internet, A lot.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, but it's like you know. It gets attention.

Pat Sullivan:

It does.

Stefanie Couch:

You know, what I think people don't realize is that money follows attention and attention is wherever at the time it changes. Attention shifts. Attention in our business right now is where it is. It was in the circulars 35 years ago and so if you're not willing to shift where you put your time and your effort and your business to get attention, then you probably will end up losing, and I think companies like Kodak and Blockbuster are a great example of you can win for a very long time with a certain path and then all of a sudden that light can go off and if you're not willing to go find another source of energy or money in that place, the profit you will not be there, especially in a very traditional business like this.

Pat Sullivan:

Yeah, I totally agree.

Stefanie Couch:

It's got to be able to be malleable, business like this. Yeah, I totally agree, it's got to be able to be malleable. So tell me a little bit more about your team, because you've got an amazing daughter-in-law who is leading this digital charge.

Pat Sullivan:

Her name is Arden. Her name is Arden. Tell me about Arden. Arden went to school and became she's a doctor. Dr Arden was a chiropractor.

Stefanie Couch:

I love it.

Pat Sullivan:

She didn't like it. It's too slow. She has a lot of energy, I mean. So during COVID she came to work at the store because nobody was chiropracting then yeah not a lot of backs cracking.

Pat Sullivan:

Not a lot of chiropractic going on, so this came short and she just the energy of. You know, all of our stores during COVID were crazy. You know we're doing all these, you know curbside and all that stuff, so you just see her running, running. She just loved the energy of the store. So she kind of came to work and then we kind of rolled into the digital and she has such a talent you know you can give her, like this morning or last night they dropped a Wizard of Oz video, because we have been under so much heat, like so much part of the country it's been this summer has been so hot that that we're getting a break, and so the wizard of oz has come out. Come out. You know low humidity is here.

Pat Sullivan:

So, and you know, the other great thing about the internet so many other industries if you copy someone's idea, you're frowned upon. Yeah, not the internet, no, they give you a boom high five for another take on. Look how many, how many things you saw from Coldplay. I know we had ours, it's like you know the video with Gwyneth Paltrow that just came out was awesome.

Pat Sullivan:

And what a smart move on their part it was so smart to say you know what we?

Stefanie Couch:

I think there's something about that that most people miss. When you try to hide something that everyone already knows, it's like, well, yeah, great job, pr company, to try to make this look like it wasn't as bad as it actually was. But what if we just didn't do that? What if we just said here we are in all of our ugly glory and we made fun of ourselves and we had a little self-deprecating humor? People resonate with that because, at the end of the day, none of us are perfect. We don't have it together. We are just people trying to figure it out.

Pat Sullivan:

None of us know what we're doing. That's right.

Stefanie Couch:

And everybody feels that. So, if you can find a way to connect with people in your business through experiences and through the humanity of it, that means that, no matter what AI does, no matter how the products change, no matter how the marketing cycles change, people are going to see you and they're going to want to be a part of what you're doing, and that's important.

Pat Sullivan:

It is.

Stefanie Couch:

And you guys are doing that. I love it. I think that what you're doing is what everyone else in this industry should have their own spin on. They don't have to do it like you, they don't have to have humor and Santa shops and all these amazing things that you have. But how do you, as a business owner, find your special thing to quit being the best kept secret and start to show yourselves? You have to be seen. How are you going to be seen if you're not showing up where the customers already are? Where do you think if you could give business owners independent hardware and lumber business owners in this industry a tip about getting started? Because this is scary, it is.

Stefanie Couch:

This is really different than most people you talked about. There's a lot of great business people out there and they don't want to risk the reputation they've built, the serious professionalism. What would you give them as advice to get started doing something like this?

Pat Sullivan:

I think I would start with an underwear video of just like the management team.

Stefanie Couch:

How did you read my mind so clearly? We were thinking the same thing, were you. It's scary.

Pat Sullivan:

You know it is because we kind of slowly did it and it's just having fun, like what we always like to say. We sell fun, we try to emotionally attach our customers to our business, and the greatest comments, the most flattering comment when we get online would be when I'm having a bad day, I come to your store, yeah, just to walk around, and that you know it's like that's what we're trying to hit, so, but we're a little different, so but I think, just having a little fun, not worrying about sometimes, you know, we're worried about price, where it's always price, price, price. It's like, hey, dude, you're not going to win the price game, remember, remember, that's over here, we're over here with puppy dogs and again, that doesn't mean that price isn't important it's not the only thing you know, and in my case, and again I know we, you know there's especially lumber and they have all of the different things they do.

Pat Sullivan:

But remember, I'm the best at five things. I'm a good hardware store, but I'm the best at five. So the price thing it's like if everybody, quite honestly, if the customer's only thing is price, they're not going to shop at my store. So we're having fun.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, I think most people consciously. They want a good deal, they want fair, but they don't need it to be the cheapest and that experience. Think about the vacations people go on. Think about the choices we make in cars and clothing. You could always buy something that's cheaper, most likely. I mean almost always, and there is that person that only cares about that.

Pat Sullivan:

But, like you said, they're not your customer, that's their, that's their thing, and sometimes it's almost. They really get satisfaction with finding the very best and using the yellow stamps or green stamps there are still stamps, I don't even know, because you're too young.

Stefanie Couch:

I've never. I've never been to the post office.

Pat Sullivan:

No, it's not those kinds of stamps. I've never been to the post office. No, it's not those kind of stamps.

Stefanie Couch:

You go to the grocery and you get stamps and then you fill your booklet. I remember I'm not.

Pat Sullivan:

I do you saw it in a movie.

Stefanie Couch:

At IGA. I went to IGA when I was a little girl and this happened in my real life. This is a real life story. You just unveiled some childhood trauma for me of licking those stamps. They tasted horrible, they they tasted horrible. They taste terrible. I liked them. You're weird, pat, in the best way. So, pat, thank you for joining me today, maybe the funnest conversation I've had.

Pat Sullivan:

And you know what About an hour?

Stefanie Couch:

you'll go wow, that was really about nothing. 30 minutes of absolutely nothing with Pat.

Pat Sullivan:

Hey, you know you should change your radio show to that. Well, we do. We do always say it's a show about nothing. That's a pretty good tagline yeah because even the radio show has changed, because the internet right, because before, when I started the radio show, people needed the information. They still need the information, yeah, but now it's more about nothing well, and it's fun.

Stefanie Couch:

It's just a fun escape from maybe their reality every, every month they or every week every week.

Pat Sullivan:

Saturday once a week. Saturday yeah, four hours long.

Stefanie Couch:

You can join me on the internet if you'd like if you have a spare four hours every saturday, pat's willing to give you something to fill your time. Nothing else going on. Well, thank you so much for joining me.

Pat Sullivan:

Thanks for inviting me.

Stefanie Couch:

Thanks for doing what you're doing to set a standard in the industry of something different, and you're standing out in a great way and I'm going to come to your store when I come to Indy. Oh that'd be great, I will be there in September.

Pat Sullivan:

Awesome.

Stefanie Couch:

So I will see you there on the lookout for the pink hat.

Stefanie Couch:

Have a great day at Orlando the last day of the show and make sure you have pink hats when I come in. You got it. Thank you for listening to the Grit Blueprint Podcast. If this episode helped you think a little differently about how to show up, share it with someone in your building world who needs it. If you're ready to turn visibility into growth, then head to gritblueprintcom to learn more and book a call to talk to us about your growth strategy. Until next time, stay unmistakable.

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