Secrets to Standing Out: Digital Beacon Award Winner, Pat Sullivan | Sponsored by Do it Best Group

This episode is sponsored by Do it Best Group!

Pat Sullivan with Sullivan Hardware and Garden, shares his journey of transforming a family hardware business into an award-winning retail destination by choosing entertainment over price competition. He reveals how creating emotional connections with customers has made Sullivan's Hardware successful despite big box and online competition.

• Family business started in 1954, purchased by Pat in 1989
• Four uniquely different stores throughout Indianapolis area
• Identified five areas to lead in: lawn & garden, barbecue grills, patio furniture, fireplaces, and artificial Christmas trees
• Shifted from traditional circular marketing to digital content focused on entertainment
• Added a gift shop that now generates millions in revenue
• Learned that "money follows attention" and adapted as attention shifted to digital platforms
• Uses humor and self-deprecating content to connect with customers emotionally
• Led by daughter-in-law Arden who transitioned from chiropractor to digital marketing leader
• Greatest compliment: "When I'm having a bad day, I come to your store just to walk around"
• Recently won the Digital Beacon Award at the Independent Hardware Industry convention

If you're ready to turn visibility into growth, head to gritblueprint.com to learn more and book a call to talk about your growth strategy. Until next time, stay unmistakable.

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I'm Stefanie Couch, the founder of Grit Blueprint. I grew up in a third-generation building supply business. I've worked inside dealers, distributors, and manufacturers. I built Grit Blueprint to solve problems I saw in our industry.

Grit Blueprint is a visibility, media, and growth partner for manufacturers, distributors, dealers, service providers, and leaders in the building industry.
We help you get seen, build trust, and become unmistakable.

Transcript

Pat Sullivan 0:00

Here's the internet . So on this side we have Amazon , you have Lowe's . They're all over here . They're fighting for all of this , and over here it's fun . It's puppy dogs , kitty cats . Where do you want to be ? Yeah , when do you think your business fits ? We still have a presence over here , but where we're building our business is over here on the front .

Stefanie Couch 0:21

Money follows attention . Attention shifts . It was in the circulars 35 years ago , and so if you're not willing to shift where you put your time and your effort and your business to get attention , then you probably will end up losing . You can't just get complacent and it sounds like some things have worked . As we all know , in business some things really don't work .

Pat Sullivan 0:40

Yeah , they don't .

Stefanie Couch 0:49

And that's

Welcome to Grit Blueprint Podcast

Stefanie Couch 0:50

why you just keep swinging at it . Welcome to the Grit Blueprint Podcast , the playbook for building unmistakable brands that grow , lead and last in the built world . I'm Stefanie Couch , the founder of Grit Blueprint , and I'm a lifelong building industry insider . I was raised here , built my career here , and now my team and I help others win here . The truth is , you can be the best option in your space and still lose to someone else who simply shows up better and more consistently Each week . On the Grit Blueprint , I'm going to show you how to stand out , earn trust and turn your brand into a competitive advantage that lasts . If you're ready to be seen , known , chosen and become unmistakable , you're in the right place . Let's get

Pat Sullivan's Family Business Journey

Stefanie Couch 1:35

started . Thank you for joining me on the Grit Blueprint Podcast . I'm your host , Stefanie Couch , and I'm here today with the man of the hour , pat Sullivan . Last night you won a Beacon Award , so congratulations on that .

Pat Sullivan 1:48

Thank you very much .

Stefanie Couch 1:50

And you gave a riveting , hilarious speech . You had the whole crowd roaring with laughter .

Pat Sullivan 1:55

I always say I'm just a village idiot .

Stefanie Couch 1:57

So everyone loves the village .

Pat Sullivan 1:59

idiot , I know , you know what there's not enough village idiots , probably in the world .

Stefanie Couch 2:03

Definitely not in our industry , you know . So I think it stands out Well . You actually won an award last night for the Digital Beacon Award , so we're going to dig in today . I want to get started talking a little bit about all the amazing things you're doing at Sullivan's .

Pat Sullivan 2:15

Oh , great , thank you .

Stefanie Couch 2:16

Tell me a little bit about you and your store . You've been in the business a long time , great .

Pat Sullivan 2:26

Family business , right ? Yes , family business . My father started in 1954 . Wow . And then I came along when I was in like third grade , so I've literally spent my entire life on one corner , even though we have other stores our main stores that you know .

Stefanie Couch 2:38

So it sounds like a CCR song down on the corner .

Pat Sullivan 2:41

Down on the corner . The only the biggest move we made was from one corner to the other corner in 1981 . And that was . That was big it was . I missed the other corner .

Stefanie Couch 2:50

That's funny . Well , you know , you bought the business in 1989 from your family , 1989 . 89 . And you're one of seven siblings and you bought the business .

Pat Sullivan 3:00

Yes .

Stefanie Couch 3:01

How did that go ?

Pat Sullivan 3:03

With my other siblings Well , I have five sisters we were a really small hardware store . So when I started working and then we moved to the other corner in 81 , 82 , we had been on that corner since 1963 . We had my father had a previous store in downtown Indianapolis and he moved around the corner about 75 blocks so it kind of moved to the edge of town but anyway . So it was just a small store . So my other siblings they're all educated and stuff . You know I'm actually the only one without a college degree . So I did go to college for just three days .

Stefanie Couch 3:48

Was it the best three days of your life ?

Pat Sullivan 3:50

I actually went down a week early , two weeks , so I joined a fraternity , had that experience , and then I had a bowling class and my bowling professor kind of really changed my life . Yeah , really set me .

Stefanie Couch 4:05

Sometimes all it takes is three days .

Pat Sullivan 4:07

Yeah , and so I quit , soon enough that I got all my money back . I went home because I really thought I cannot be hung over this much . So then , that way I went home . I bought a house when I was 18 and went to work .

Stefanie Couch 4:24

Yeah , so Well , I grew up in a hardware store too . Actually , my dad owned a hardware store in Lumberyard and I had a very similar experience . But I did go to college and I came right back and ran the hardware store in Lumberyard and you know , I never wanted to do anything else , I just felt like I was built for business Did you feel that way ?

Pat Sullivan 4:42

Yeah , I did . I knew it's always what I wanted to do is I really enjoyed it ? I'm just kind of a daydreamer too . You know they probably have letters to describe that now , don't they ?

Stefanie Couch 4:53

There's a lot of testing now , I'm sure .

Pat Sullivan 4:55

I'm sure you'd fail . I would have failed all of those .

Stefanie Couch 4:58

Well , I want to talk a little bit about what you're doing today , because you guys have

Five Things to Lead In

Stefanie Couch 5:03

a really cool business . You have four stores .

Pat Sullivan 5:06

Yes .

Stefanie Couch 5:06

Tell me where the stores are , tell me a little bit about the business as it stands today , and then I want to get into some of the marketing and digital stuff .

Pat Sullivan 5:13

So , first of all , the genius that I am , I have four stores . They're all different , yeah , so really it's really kind of hard to market them . So , from I have a little store in Cicero , indiana . It's just a plain hardware store not just plain , but it's a nice little hardware store . And then we have a store in the historic part of Indianapolis Actually , this was my idea , it's right by the governor's mansion and I thought if I moved there I could get some state business . Yeah , it didn't work , so , but it's really cool . You have to do a little different thing . Yeah , I thought if I moved there I could get some state business . Yeah , it didn't work , so , but it's really cool .

Stefanie Couch 5:46

Evidently you have to do a little different thing than just live next door .

Pat Sullivan 5:48

I thought if I , you know , we were neighbors . You know , maybe throw me a contract over the fence .

Pat Sullivan 5:52

The governor is not Mr Rogers , evidently no no , so , but it's a really cool area and we have a 6,000 square foot store and then about a 3,000 or 4,000 square foot greenhouse and it really is , and the people I mean are so dedicated . Our customers are so dedicated to that store . It's just , it really is a great one . And then our Keystone store is kind of where 71st and Keystone is where I've spent my life . You know , my dad probably was smarter and he saw what was coming . He thought I need to get the hell out of here . So he sold it to me and it just things were changing so quick All of a sudden . You know , we had some regional box stores like . But then you know , lowe's was the first one to town and at the time Lowe's was kind of like , you know , everybody puts four stores , you know , northeast , west , south . Well then you know , one landed right on top of us and so things were changing rapidly .

Pat Sullivan 6:51

And yeah , I , you know we still had great customers and we were always strong in lawn and garden . So we had that . But we had I always called the sympathy business . People come in , they get something , they go , they go . We always bought our hardware from your daddy and it's like that's great , but I wanted people excited to come in my store . I didn't really once . I take that back . We rung up the sympathy business . We took the sympathy business , but I really wanted more . I wanted excitement . So , you know , we started doing some traveling and we were already strong in , like I say , lawn and garden . But I thought if I could just be a good hardware store and then kind of be a leader , and we picked , we said we wanted to be a leader in five things , yeah , and so that's what we did .

Stefanie Couch 7:37

What five things .

Pat Sullivan 7:38

Lawn and garden was a natural Okay . Barbecue grills we want it to be kind of the grill , and then mid-price patio furniture was going to be a big one . Fireplaces and this is weird , I know it's going to sound weird Artificial Christmas trees . So we failed in fireplaces and it's important because you don't everything doesn't always work out Fireplaces . It turned out . First of all , we had a beautiful display . We had eight working fireplaces .

Stefanie Couch 8:09

But it was pretty hot in there .

Pat Sullivan 8:10

Hell , yes , it was , and that was the problem . We could never run them . It was so hot . It's like I just never see that's the problem we could never run them . It was so hot . No , it's like I just never see . That's the problem . No education , I never made the connection .

Stefanie Couch 8:20

You didn't think about that .

Pat Sullivan 8:21

That it was going to be really hot and the other thing turns out nobody really changes their gas logs . All that often .

Stefanie Couch 8:26

Yeah , it's kind of a one and done .

Pat Sullivan 8:28

Yeah , you get them , and that's it . Yeah , so along we picked up gift and , in kind of a very odd way , our furniture . So we opened , so we built a new store behind our store on Keystone Avenue . We opened in 2004 at this store and it went really well . I mean , like it was an instant kind of success , I would say .

Pat Sullivan 8:55

The way I bought our property , which was also I was just like buying up a neighborhood , which was really odd . But so there was an old farmhouse that we had owned since 1973 , kind of the farmhouse for that area , and so we needed more space for patio furniture . So we are decided to build , you know , like a porch on it , three-sided porch for all of our patio furniture in addition to what we had in the store . And so it was really cool that we painted the farmhouse yellow and it kind of stood out and someone came in and said , hey , what are you going to do with the inside ? So I don't know , she goes . What about a gift shop ? So then that's how we ended up with a gift shop and that does a couple million dollars a year .

Stefanie Couch 9:34

It's such a great idea . My actually town I live in a little small town in Georgia and they have a great store that

From Circulars to Digital Marketing

Stefanie Couch 9:43

I mean they do a ton on gifting .

Pat Sullivan 9:45

Yeah .

Stefanie Couch 9:45

And for a long time it was almost the only place to get like a wedding registry anywhere , because there was no big box anywhere . Now there are some , but people love it and it's . I buy Christmas gifts there a lot . It's just so great . I love it and it's . I buy Christmas gifts there a lot . It's just so great . They gift wrap for free so I can have something beautiful purchased , don't have to wrap it .

Pat Sullivan 10:01

It is such , it's just . You know retailers are always looking for things that we can be the best at that . You know that we can't get hurt by the box stores , and that's one of them . I mean Lowe's . Like we sell dresses , ladies' dresses , and like you don't see any dresses at Lowe's , do you ?

Stefanie Couch 10:14

No , I got to come to the store . Do you have hats ?

Pat Sullivan 10:17

Yes , we have hats .

Stefanie Couch 10:18

Oh well , we need to set this up . If you have pink hats , I'm all in .

Pat Sullivan 10:22

I'm not sure that we have pink hats Well .

Stefanie Couch 10:24

I'll tell you when I'm I might be stretching it on that one . I'll tell you when I'm coming . Maybe you can't get rest on your laurels . You can't just get complacent . And it sounds like some things have worked . As we all know , in business , some things really don't work .

Pat Sullivan 10:41

Yeah , they don't , and that's why you just keep swinging at it .

Stefanie Couch 10:44

Yeah , and you have done a lot on the digital side . So you talked a lot about being different , standing out . I obviously resonate with that deeply . I love to figure out a way to make people pay attention to your business , especially in a place that maybe it is a little boring by nature . And you won this Digital Beacon Award for the first time this year here at IHI . Tell me about what you guys are doing with your marketing , because marketing , in my opinion , for most business owners in the hardware lumber building industry it's kind of a cuss word and not the kind you like to use .

Stefanie Couch 11:18

It's the type of word that is a waste of money . You can't track it , you know not really sure if it's worth it . We have word of mouth , but you guys have flipped that on its head . Tell me what you're doing at Sullivan .

Pat Sullivan 11:29

Well , what we aren't doing is we were I mean , maybe it's our large metro area , I mean this , the circulars that we were doing just they just weren't pulling like they would . I remember back , way back when I was a kid , it's like when we put a circular it was huge , yeah , and so then we realized it's like , you know , after the box stores , of course , then here can , here comes the , the internet . Who thought that was going to make it right ? I'm still not sold on that thing .

Stefanie Couch 12:01

Still iffy whether the World Wide Web is really going to continue to be worldwide .

Pat Sullivan 12:05

A little touch and go on that thing , amazon . So then you're dealing with that . So then we went from the box store thing where we tried to put in some cool things and be a leader and all those things . Well then here comes the internet and the internet that you know . So then we realized it was entertainment . So then we had to become an entertainment venue and that's kind of what we've done and we have a lot of fun with social media and , as I said last night , it's like I wish I remembered his name .

Pat Sullivan 12:36

He's I don't think he's at Do it Best anymore , but you know , we were all fired up . You know we need to sell online , like everybody else . And he goes , he just puts up his hands like this here's the internet . So on this side we have Amazon , you have Lowe's , we have probably Sears . Yeah , jcpenney , jcpenney , they're all over here . They jc penny , jc penny , they're all over here . They're fighting for you know all , all of this and this is a long time ago , you know so and over here it's fun , it's puppy dogs , kitty cats , you know . And he just said where do you , where do you want to be ? Yeah , where do you think your business fits , you want to go over here and mix it up , or you want to . And so I realized it's like , oh , you know , it's like , yeah , we still have a presence over here , but where we're building our business is over here on the fun side and what I love about that is , first of all , kudos to this like guy who's a pariah at in the internet age .

Pat Sullivan 13:33

What was this like in the late 90s , early 2000s , yeah , I would say probably around 2005 to 2010 , somewhere .

Stefanie Couch 13:41

It's pretty perceptive to pick up on that back then and then also .

Pat Sullivan 13:45

We should name him , I have no idea who it was . Let's call him Jim .

Stefanie Couch 13:47

Jim so anyway , Jim said that Jim knew what he was talking about , but Jim helped . You see that this over here .

Pat Sullivan 13:54

I have a tattoo of Jim's name , art Jim .

Stefanie Couch 13:55

Jim helped you see that this over here I have a tattoo of Jim's name Heart Jim . I was wondering what that was peeking over your sleeve there , Jim really helped .

Stefanie Couch 14:01

You see that this is a blue ocean . You know puppy dogs , kitty cats , cat videos . I like many Highland Cow videos and Golden Retriever videos personally . That's my thing , that's what my feed is , and you know pink shoes and things like that , but at the end of the day that was a blue ocean opportunity for you . Somewhere where no one else is really swimming . It feels really wildly

Creating Emotional Connections with Customers

Stefanie Couch 14:21

uncomfortable to most people in our industry to swim in a place that's fun and out there and maybe makes you look a little less than professional and buttoned up .

Pat Sullivan 14:30

I know and that is a little problem , Not a problem , but it's just different and maybe a lot of industries , like you know , we have some really , really talented businessmen and they're not , you know , not used to . I do a lot of stupid things on the internet , A lot .

Stefanie Couch 14:46

Yeah , but it's like you know . It gets attention .

Pat Sullivan 14:50

It does .

Stefanie Couch 14:50

You know , what I think people don't realize is that money follows attention and attention is wherever at the time it changes . Attention shifts . Attention in our business right now is where it is . It was in the circulars 35 years ago and so if you're not willing to shift where you put your time and your effort and your business to get attention , then you probably will end up losing , and I think companies like Kodak and Blockbuster are a great example of you can win for a very long time with a certain path and then all of a sudden that light can go off and if you're not willing to go find another source of energy or money in that place , the profit you will not be there , especially in a very traditional business like this .

Pat Sullivan 15:33

Yeah , I totally agree .

Stefanie Couch 15:34

It's got to be able to be malleable , business like this . Yeah , I totally agree , it's got to be able to be malleable . So tell me a little bit more about your team , because you've got an amazing daughter-in-law who is leading this digital charge .

Pat Sullivan 15:43

Her name is Arden . Her name is Arden . Tell me about Arden . Arden went to school and became she's a doctor . Dr Arden was a chiropractor .

Stefanie Couch 15:55

I love it .

Pat Sullivan 15:56

She didn't like it . It's too slow . She has a lot of energy , I mean . So during COVID she came to work at the store because nobody was chiropracting then yeah not a lot of backs cracking .

Pat Sullivan 16:12

Not a lot of chiropractic going on , so this came short and she just the energy of . You know , all of our stores during COVID were crazy . You know we're doing all these , you know curbside and all that stuff , so you just see her running , running . She just loved the energy of the store . So she kind of came to work and then we kind of rolled into the digital and she has such a talent you know you can give her , like this morning or last night they dropped a Wizard of Oz video , because we have been under so much heat , like so much part of the country it's been this summer has been so hot that that we're getting a break , and so the wizard of oz has come out . Come out . You know low humidity is here .

Pat Sullivan 16:59

So , and you know , the other great thing about the internet so many other industries if you copy someone's idea , you're frowned upon . Yeah , not the internet , no , they give you a boom high five for another take on . Look how many , how many things you saw from Coldplay . I know we had ours , it's like you know the video with Gwyneth Paltrow that just came out was awesome .

Pat Sullivan 17:27

And what a smart move on their part it was so smart to say you know what we ?

Stefanie Couch 17:31

I think there's something about that that most people miss . When you try to hide something that everyone already knows , it's like , well , yeah , great job , pr company , to try to make this look like it wasn't as bad as it actually was . But what if we just didn't do that ? What if we just said here we are in all of our ugly glory and we made fun of ourselves and we had a little self-deprecating humor ? People resonate with that because , at the end of the day , none of us are perfect . We don't have it together . We are just people trying to figure it out .

Pat Sullivan 18:03

None of us know what we're doing . That's right .

Stefanie Couch 18:06

And everybody feels that . So , if you can find a way to connect with people in your business through experiences and through the humanity of it , that means that , no matter what AI does , no matter how the products change , no matter how the marketing cycles change , people are going to see you and they're going to want to be a part of what you're doing , and that's important .

Pat Sullivan 18:25

It is .

Stefanie Couch 18:26

And you guys are doing that . I love it . I think that what you're doing is what everyone else in this industry should have their own spin on . They don't have to do it like you , they don't have to have humor and Santa shops and all these amazing things that you have . But how do you , as a business owner , find your special thing to quit being the best kept secret and start to show yourselves ? You have to be seen . How are you going to be seen if you're not showing up where the customers already are ? Where do you think if you could give business owners independent hardware and lumber business owners in this industry a tip about getting started ? Because this is scary , it is .

Stefanie Couch 19:04

This is really different than most people you talked about . There's a lot of great business people out there and

Final Thoughts and Store Invitation

Stefanie Couch 19:10

they don't want to risk the reputation they've built , the serious professionalism . What would you give them as advice to get started doing something like this ?

Pat Sullivan 19:18

I think I would start with an underwear video of just like the management team .

Stefanie Couch 19:24

How did you read my mind so clearly ? We were thinking the same thing , were you . It's scary .

Pat Sullivan 19:31

You know it is because we kind of slowly did it and it's just having fun , like what we always like to say . We sell fun , we try to emotionally attach our customers to our business , and the greatest comments , the most flattering comment when we get online would be when I'm having a bad day , I come to your store , yeah , just to walk around , and that you know it's like that's what we're trying to hit , so , but we're a little different , so but I think , just having a little fun , not worrying about sometimes , you know , we're worried about price , where it's always price , price , price . It's like , hey , dude , you're not going to win the price game , remember , remember , that's over here , we're over here with puppy dogs and again , that doesn't mean that price isn't important it's not the only thing you know , and in my case , and again I know we , you know there's especially lumber and they have all of the different things they do .

Pat Sullivan 20:29

But remember , I'm the best at five things . I'm a good hardware store , but I'm the best at five . So the price thing it's like if everybody , quite honestly , if the customer's only thing is price , they're not going to shop at my store . So we're having fun .

Stefanie Couch 20:50

Yeah , I think most people consciously . They want a good deal , they want fair , but they don't need it to be the cheapest and that experience . Think about the vacations people go on . Think about the choices we make in cars and clothing . You could always buy something that's cheaper , most likely . I mean almost always , and there is that person that only cares about that .

Pat Sullivan 21:12

But , like you said , they're not your customer , that's their , that's their thing , and sometimes it's almost . They really get satisfaction with finding the very best and using the yellow stamps or green stamps there are still stamps , I don't even know , because you're too young .

Stefanie Couch 21:29

I've never . I've never been to the post office .

Pat Sullivan 21:31

No , it's not those kinds of stamps . I've never been to the post office . No , it's not those kind of stamps .

Stefanie Couch 21:36

You go to the grocery and you get stamps and then you fill your booklet . I remember I'm not .

Pat Sullivan 21:39

I do you saw it in a movie .

Stefanie Couch 21:41

At IGA . I went to IGA when I was a little girl and this happened in my real life . This is a real life story . You just unveiled some childhood trauma for me of licking those stamps . They tasted horrible , they they tasted horrible . They taste terrible . I liked them . You're weird , pat , in the best way . So , pat , thank you for joining me today , maybe the funnest conversation I've had .

Pat Sullivan 22:04

And you know what About an hour ?

Stefanie Couch 22:11

you'll go wow , that was really about nothing . 30 minutes of absolutely nothing with Pat .

Pat Sullivan 22:18

Hey , you know you should change your radio show to that . Well , we do . We do always say it's a show about nothing . That's a pretty good tagline yeah because even the radio show has changed , because the internet right , because before , when I started the radio show , people needed the information . They still need the information , yeah , but now it's more about nothing well , and it's fun .

Stefanie Couch 22:35

It's just a fun escape from maybe their reality every , every month they or every week every week .

Pat Sullivan 22:41

Saturday once a week . Saturday yeah , four hours long .

Stefanie Couch 22:44

You can join me on the internet if you'd like if you have a spare four hours every saturday , pat's willing to give you something to fill your time . Nothing else going on . Well , thank you so much for joining me .

Pat Sullivan 22:54

Thanks for inviting me .

Stefanie Couch 22:55

Thanks for doing what you're doing to set a standard in the industry of something different , and you're standing out in a great way and I'm going to come to your store when I come to Indy . Oh that'd be great , I will be there in September .

Pat Sullivan 23:07

Awesome .

Stefanie Couch 23:10

So I will see you there on the lookout for the pink hat .

Stefanie Couch 23:12

Have a great day at Orlando the last day of the show and make sure you have pink hats when I come in . You got it . Thank you for listening to the Grit Blueprint Podcast . If this episode helped you think a little differently about how to show up , share it with someone in your building world who needs it . If you're ready to turn visibility into growth , then head to gritblueprintcom to learn more and book a call to talk to us about your growth strategy . Until next time , stay unmistakable .