The Grit Blueprint

The Future of Building Products: AI, Innovation, and Market Evolution with Nick Pesl

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Customer service excellence creates unshakable loyalty in the building materials industry, ensuring you're always the first choice for your clients. 

• Windows and doors are often the first budget items cut in new construction, despite being critical to home efficiency and comfort
• Upgrading front doors provides one of the highest returns on investment for home remodels
• Product innovation remains essential for manufacturers to stay competitive in the marketplace
• Kolbe's new vacuum insulated glass outperforms triple pane while reducing weight
• Their new door system accommodates panels up to 10' wide and 12' tall with easy operation
• Sales remains relationship-driven despite technological changes
• When hiring salespeople, look for self-starters who are hungry, ambitious and willing to travel
• AI shows promise for customer service, product design, and visualization tools
• Companies should focus on doing one segment exceptionally rather than being average at everything
• Digital marketing is shifting from Google (down to 18% of searches) to Instagram and Pinterest
• Personal brands of salespeople amplify company reach when properly leveraged
• Building strong team culture helped overcome seemingly insurmountable COVID challenges

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Stefanie Couch:

If you're so good at customer service that, like you said, you just take care of things for people, you make issues go away and you reduce friction in people's business. That is how you make sure that you're the person they call and they're not even thinking about calling anyone else.

Nick Pesl:

As a whole, this industry is still a relationship-driven business when we're looking for salespeople or sales positions to fill, really looking for somebody who's a self-starter, hungry, hungry to prove themselves ambitious.

Stefanie Couch:

So if you're in this industry and you're like I don't think Instagram or any of these other things are going to matter, you better be thinking about it, because this Google world is going to change and I believe that Google is going to be like the Yellow Pages in a few years. I think it'll be relatively obsolete or totally different than it is today. Welcome to the Grit Blueprint podcast, the show for bold builders, brand leaders and legacy makers in the construction and building industry. I'm your host, Stefanie Couch, and I've been in this industry my entire life. Whether we're breaking down what's working in sales and marketing, new advances in AI and automation, or interviewing top industry leaders, you're going to get real-world strategies to grow your business, build your brand and lead your team. Let's get to work.

Stefanie Couch:

Welcome to the Grit Blueprint Podcast. I'm your host, Stefanie Couch. Today, I have a guest who has been in the door and window industry for over 25 years, and I'm excited to talk to him about all the things that he's learned over his career and also the things that he sees that are happening in the industry right now, because there's a lot going on, Nick. Welcome to the show, Nick Pesl, with Kolbe Window and Door, thank you for joining me today.

Nick Pesl:

Thank you, good to be here.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, I know you have a long history, so I wanted you to start by just telling me a little bit about how you got into the business, what you've done throughout your career and what you're doing today.

Nick Pesl:

Sure. So I started at Kolbe back in the summer of 2000, working on the shop floor. I did that for a few years and ultimately moved into customer support and from there I actually took a territory manager position down in the Chicago market for a bit over six years. I transferred back to corporate in early 2012 where I joined the marketing team. I worked with our marketing team for about 10 years. Then I moved over into our displays department where we kind of construct and build all of our dealer and distributor showroom displays and also led all of our trade show exhibits.

Stefanie Couch:

Wow, you've done basically everything, or it sounds like a lot of what happens in the business. You have experience there. What's kept you in the game, what's kept you with Kolbe for so long and also what's your favorite job you've ever had at Kolbe? I'm curious.

Nick Pesl:

One of my favorite jobs was my past position as the displays manager.

Nick Pesl:

You know one of the things that I liked about that it was a satellite facility and it's a small manufacturing group and, as I mentioned earlier, that's where we built all of our dealer and distributor showroom displays but also all of our trade show exhibits and you know it was a chance to kind of create a culture of our own. So that was one of the things that I really liked the most was leading that group, kind of changing the culture and instilling the values that I find that are true and dear to me. So it was a good group of folks. But to answer your first question, what was my favorite position? I would have to say the position I'm in now. So I'm now a regional sales manager that oversees all of the Midwest and I've been heavily involved in product throughout my tenure at Kolbe. So for me it's an easy position. For me that doesn't mean that it's not challenging, obviously at times, but I think because I'm so product heavy it comes fairly easy for me and I enjoy seeing the sales side of things.

Stefanie Couch:

Once you get into the products, because I consider myself a pretty big door and window nerd. I've just been in it so long and then when I went to my corporate job, you know, I got to learn the actual technical part of it. I'd been selling windows and doors a long time but I'd never been in a fabrication door manufacturing facility. And you're a product geek self-professed, and I want to know what is one thing that you think people maybe miss about or don't think about as much about windows and doors that you think is really critical for people to get right.

Nick Pesl:

Well, the one thing that I see just being in sales is typically on a new construction home project. The first thing that gets you know slashed when it comes to trying to stay under budget is the windows and doors. It drives me bananas. But you know, the thing that I want people to know most about that situation is you know, anytime you have a hole in a building envelope, it's important to get it right. Yeah, you know, so many times you see budgets getting cut because you know they want granite countertops or this and that, and in reality, in my opinion, those windows are far more important than any other item in the home.

Stefanie Couch:

Really, they're also a lot bigger pain in the tail to replace later. You know, like I know, no one wants to really think about replacing something when you're building a new home because you're like this is going to be here forever. But you know, trends change surfaces, what's in style, what's the latest and greatest change, and the same thing with windows and doors. But when you start to rip out the side of your home, when you're trying to live in it, that's a lot bigger issue than changing a countertop where maybe you can't cook for a week, or maybe even they do it the same day and it's done. So I definitely think that's interesting.

Stefanie Couch:

You know, zonda has some data that I just saw recently about what are the biggest upgrades and what are people upgrading, and it is true that windows and doors are one of the lowest things on the list, but upgrading your front door is actually one of the I think it's the second most valuable return on investment for remodels. So it's kind of interesting that people aren't thinking about that. But then when they're going back and doing it in remodels, they're getting a lot of cash back out of that when they are upgrading. So maybe people are missing that, like you said, and they should be thinking about it. How do you think we get people to reframe that? Is that done at the manufacturer level? Is it done at the dealer, the pro that's in the home selling these things? How do we do that where homeowners are like this is what I want to spend my extra money on.

Nick Pesl:

I think it's education all the way around. You know, whether it's you know, from the marketing teams on the manufacturer side or at the dealer, distributor level. Even myself, if I'm, if I'm meeting with our channel partners I use the term channel partner just really to refer to dealers and distributors but whether I'm speaking with them or I'm speaking with a builder, an architect or even, at times, a homeowner, I try to point out the importance of energy efficiency, and your windows and doors are really going to assist with that from a whole envelope standpoint, the most of pretty much anything else other than the wall insulation itself, right?

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of trends out there. Just talking a little more about product what's one product that Kolbe's come out with or that you guys are working on, that you love, that you think people should know about?

Nick Pesl:

So I actually I would share a couple things. So we're currently in development. We partnered with a company called Luxwall Glass out of Michigan and we are going to be rolling out vacuum insulated glass in some of our products here in July. I actually believe it will outperform triple pane glass and take a lot of weight out of the product, so it'll provide a much more energy efficient option in terms of glass in general.

Stefanie Couch:

Gotcha. Okay, that's really cool.

Nick Pesl:

A second item I'd like to point out is we just unveiled at the IBS show and I think I actually showed it to you while you were out there our Vislux WD line Stretta door. It's a door system that we can do one through, four panels wide, and each panel can be up to 10 feet wide and 12 feet tall.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, it was impressive, and that's the one that pushes with just very little pressure. Right, it was impressive, and that's the one that pushes with just very little pressure right.

Nick Pesl:

Exactly exactly.

Stefanie Couch:

So that's the newest product that we released and it's a really nice operating product, but it seals very well too, yeah nobody wants to have a workout when they try to open their back door and go out and enjoy the sunshine in the morning. You don't want to have to try to push a back door and go out and enjoy the sunshine in the morning. You don't want to have to try to push a huge door where you can't open it. These things just keep getting larger. Also, you know, I think that's one thing that really struck me at IBS this year is everyone is pushing the envelope from innovation, all these you know energy efficiency standpoints but people want things that are wow factors, especially on high end homes.

Stefanie Couch:

We I live in North Georgia. We have a lot of lakefront homes here that are very expensive. People want a 16-foot door that's super tall, that you know they can open in, it feels open to the atmosphere but also is easy to live in. So I think that's great that you guys are doing all of those products that are making that happen for people.

Nick Pesl:

Yeah, that product does operate very well. It also seals very well, so the testing performance on it is is really great. But but you, you're right, when you get to those large door panels it's it's paramount that they're they're able to be operated easily because, uh, you know, you start getting into 12 foot tall panels. You know, 10 feet wide, that's a lot of weight on a single door panel.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, I always cringe when I think about delivering them and also installing them.

Stefanie Couch:

I'm one of the other ones that has to figure that part out, but I'll just sell it and or somebody like me will sell it and they can deal with that on the job site. I know there's a lot of people that know how to do it, so they're very good at it. It's probably just another day for them. Well you, speaking of sales, you lead a sales team and you have territory managers and you oversee a really large, diverse region. I hear a lot from my clients and just generally people in the industry about how sales has changed. I think during the pandemic, we all sort of got a little bit maybe lazy or became more order takers. How do you inspire a sales team, and even possibly the next generation of people that are going to be coming into sales, to really be high performing and to go out and crush it in your market?

Nick Pesl:

That's a tough question to answer. You know, I would say, as a whole, this industry is still a relationship driven business. You know, obviously COVID put some restraints on us and we had to do some things remote and obviously we weren't having in-person visits and stuff like that. But I truly do believe it's still a relationship focused business in, you know, when, when we're looking for salespeople or sales positions to to fill, really looking for somebody who's, you know, a self-starter hungry, hungry to prove themselves ambitious.

Nick Pesl:

You know, the product can be taught right. You know we have a pretty diverse product but it can be taught a lot of guidance, a lot of mentoring, obviously great communication skills, social aptitude, stuff like that, but, most importantly too, willing to travel, because in most, most cases there's there's quite a bit of travel involved and you're spending the bulk of your time calling on existing channel partners and or builders and architects, whether they're familiar with your product or not. You know, obviously we want to target those that aren't familiar so we can get in front of them and educate them on what our brand has to offer, can get in front of them and educate them on what our brand has to offer.

Stefanie Couch:

People think that the travel is not to undervalue. You know people that don't travel. But people think it's like, oh, you get to travel all the time. They say that to me a lot. I'm like, yeah, and then they say, well, let's be so much fun. I'm like, sure, I order Uber Eats after 12 hours of meetings while I'm in my hotel room catching up on the emails I didn't read during the workday or, you know, speaking or whatever.

Stefanie Couch:

It's not like you're out having it lapping it up at the pool drinking daiquiris. I mean, maybe somebody. If there is a job like that, somebody please hit me up because I'm interested. But you know, it is fun to get to see different things and I do love going places to meet customers. That's one of my favorite parts of this industry.

Stefanie Couch:

But travel can be tough and you really are away from who you love at home and your routine gets disrupted. So it does take a special person to do that, you know, and especially for a long period of time. It's different if it's once or twice a year at trade shows, but if you're doing it every week, you got to have a certain type of person that wants to live that lifestyle. So I think that's a great point to call out with the typical type of sales. I'm curious. You know you've worked in all of these areas. What is technology doing in your business today and how do you guys think about things like automations and innovations and AI? Is that something you guys are talking about using, or thinking about using, in your business, especially with your sales teams?

Nick Pesl:

Absolutely. We think about all of those things. So, from an automation standpoint, you know, we have incorporated automation into some of our products, but from a manufacturing standpoint, we're still very proud of the fact that very little in our manufacturing facility is automated. You know, a lot of our team members back home do a great job. We really view our team members as craftspeople, so that's one thing we pride ourselves on as a company. You know, as it pertains to AI, I think there's going to be some interesting potential with AI, whether it's, you know, chat bots from a customer service standpoint, or helping us design products in terms of material and performance for specific regions of the United States. I think, as AI is just starting to really get going, it's going to open the doors for a lot of potential opportunities for manufacturers.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, I believe the next 18 to 24 months with AI in our industry is going to be kind of an arbitrage moment where we see things that we probably never thought we were going to see. One thing that's interesting is you know people are like, oh yeah, but the Internet took so long for people to adopt in our industry, and that is true. But you also think about what it took to get on the Internet if you didn't have it already. You know you had to find a computer. You had to. It was expensive to get a computer If you had a big architecture of you know people that needed it in your business. You had to have multiple, so it's maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars. You have to get internet and it may be super slow. All those things are already here in our business. What do you have to do to start using AI? Go to a website I mean that's it. You type in openaicom and it comes up and you can start using ChatGPT to do things immediately. Now some of these other programs that are integrated into your business. They have AI. Almost every single program I have now somehow has integrated already AI and I do believe that in the next 18 to 24 months, people are going to start using this and thinking, okay, here's a few small things I can integrate into my business.

Stefanie Couch:

So where do I see AI going?

Stefanie Couch:

I don't know exactly how people will adopt it, but I think from a sales and marketing perspective, like you said, the chatbots is one way.

Stefanie Couch:

It's not about replacing humans, though, Like your sales team shouldn't be worried, in my opinion, that they're going to lose their jobs because of AI, but what they might be able to do is pull up a sheet with data on it that would have taken them six hours to put together in their hotel room, and it took them six minutes to run the algorithm on AI and get that data to say, okay, I'm going to talk to Sally today and I need to talk to her about these three products, because this is the thing in her market that could do the best that people are asking for, that solve the problems the most. So that's how I think it's going to help the people that use it get better, and I do think people are really scared of it. A lot of people are very dystopian about it, but it's here, so I do believe the people who choose now to start to use it will be the ones that succeed in the next two years.

Nick Pesl:

I think it's exciting because I think you can really get a lot of market intelligence out of something like AI. I also think one other potential use would be, you know, quoting, quoting, quoting programs, maybe even incorporating like a visualizer, where you know a consumer can basically create whatever they want.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and I think AI imagery is going to be interesting to see as well. We do a lot at Grit Blueprint. We do a lot of catalogs, we do a lot of photography, and the reason we're doing that is because no one has images of their products. Every manufacturer I know would love it if you had an extra 100 images to use in catalogs or social or whatever. If you had an extra hundred images to use in catalogs or social or whatever. And once the images get better, I do think there's an easy way to use those where you use your actual product image, you know, without a background, and put it onto something and then it looks real. People do it with CGI now, but I think it'll look a lot better with AI images and they're already pretty cool looking so you can tell sometimes they're AI, but a lot of times it's pretty hard to tell if you don't know what you're looking at.

Nick Pesl:

Yeah, I would agree, and that's kind of what I was alluding to in terms of being able to kind of create something on the fly for a consumer.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, and I think people do want to see it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars go into displays, like you say, in a lot of these showrooms. So if something new comes out you have to rework your whole showroom to be able to put that new display in. What would happen if we had a really great way to make a homeowner be able to see what it would look like on their house Doesn't mean they won't still want to touch and feel it in life, in real life, but it'll help at least get them a little further down the channel there to know if it's a good fit for them or not.

Nick Pesl:

Yep absolutely.

Stefanie Couch:

Well, I want to ask you about growth. I want to see what your opinion is on mistakes that you see dealers, manufacturers, anyone in our industry making that really holds them back from growth, and maybe a story of how you've been able to overcome some of that. I have some in my own career that I think I could share, but I would love to hear your opinion on that. What are we missing and holding ourselves back with in this industry?

Nick Pesl:

So I think really in this industry, to stay ahead of all of the competition, you really have to focus on innovation. You know, similar to AI, you know there's all sorts of technologies out in the world and I think as a manufacturer, you can't stand still ever. You always have to be looking for the next best thing. That would be my advice from a manufacturing standpoint, from a dealer distributor, one of our channel partners. From their perspective, I think one thing that holds them up on growth the most is just providing top-notch customer service. You know, sometimes you have channel partners that like to send minor service-related items back and put that back on the manufacturer, when there are other channel partners out there that just do whatever they have to do to satisfy their customer, and I really think that's what helps. You know, really set those dealers apart from other dealers is the ones who their customers know they're going to do whatever they have to do to make sure they're taken care of.

Stefanie Couch:

Customer experience and how people perceive what you do for them. I think it's the most important thing in the building industry for sure, because you don't want to be competing on price, you don't want to be the person that every single job gets quoted out and all those things. If you're so good at customer service that, like you said, you just take care of things for people, you make issues go away and you reduce friction in people's business, that is how you make sure that you're the person they call and they're not even thinking about calling anyone else. And I mean every person I know wants to be the first choice. But it's how do you actually make that happen? You know there are a lot of people out there that I think say they want to have great customer service. But what does that really mean? And to me that's asking your customers. What does that mean to you? Because I think for a small builder that's building five or 10 homes a year that are $5 million, that's a very different thing than someone who's building a thousand homes. That needs a certain type of service. It's asking those clients and then also knowing who you serve best and being brave enough to niche down and say I'm going to focus on that segment of this business. So if you want to focus on those 10 homes a year at 5 million people, then maybe you can't go out and compete for the thousand homes. Sometimes we have to make those choices.

Stefanie Couch:

I think one of the things that I see that holds them back is trying to do everything for everyone to do big residential. They want to do custom residential, they want it all. They want all the business, but they don't have the staff or the ability to do all of it really really well. So they actually do everything like pretty good instead of just being world-class at one or two categories. So that's my advice.

Stefanie Couch:

And then branding themselves as that. You know, hey, we don't care about this part of the business. We're not trying to do that. We're only focused on this thing that we wanna be the best at in the world and we're gonna talk about it every time we can, and then people are gonna know us for that. That's where I feel like people miss so much. How do you brand where you know that person, that manufacturer, that dealer is the best? What is Kolbe doing to enhance their brand? I'm curious. You know, I know you're at shows. I saw you and met you at IBS this year. What are you guys doing out in the market to market yourselves and brand yourselves?

Nick Pesl:

Well, we do a lot of advertising on a national scale. That's the bulk of our advertising right? So, as you mentioned, the International Builder Show will be at the National AIA Show here at the beginning of June out in Boston. Those are pretty much the national shows that we participate in. We do more regional shows as well, smaller regional shows, but we also offer a co-op program with our channel partners that they can utilize towards advertising in their particular markets as well. That way it's kind of a co-branded advertisement in their particular market.

Stefanie Couch:

I love it. I think people want to see what we're doing in the industry, even people you talk about homeowners wanting to upgrade their windows and doors. How do we get people to do that? People want to see and read and look at beautiful products and they also want to feel the story around that of hey, this product is better because of these reasons. Without getting so technical you know we're all product nerds we want to talk about glass that has this cool new thing that's so much better than triple glazed and wine.

Stefanie Couch:

I don't feel like homeowners really need or want to know that part, but they want to know the problem that it solves and what it's going to help them get and how it's going to be better for them in layman's terms that they can understand. So how do we make it a great message? That's third grade level, where people can understand it and want to just scroll past and see that beautiful picture. I think more photography, more videography, more storytelling in our industry is something we need so deeply In any product category, not just windows and doors, but definitely windows and doors that are more expensive. You got to show that story because people aren't going to see the value just by telling them.

Nick Pesl:

I don't think to see the value just by telling them. I don't think I would agree. Not to mention you know product videos. Social media, obviously, is a must too. You know everybody's on social media nowadays, so you know your Pinterest and LinkedIn and Facebook. Those are all platforms that I think are critical for any manufacturer.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, one thing I'll tell you. A little nerdy statistic that I heard the other day that I thought was crazy is since the last three years, google searches used to be about 84% of all searches and now this year it's around 18. So that's just in the last two years has changed. Where are those other searches coming in? Well, over 5 billion searches per day are on Instagram, over 2 billion are on Pinterest, and then there's other platforms like Reddit, things like that. So if you're in this industry and you're like I don't think Instagram or any of these other things are going to matter, you better be thinking about it, because this Google world is going to change and I believe that Google is going to be like the Yellow Pages in a few years. I think it'll be relatively obsolete or totally different than it is today. Seo is changing super rapidly and those large language models like chat, gpt, claude, all these places that people are searching they're going to be important to make sure that when people search what is the best window, what is the best door, how can I replace my you know, blah, blah, blah, insert product here? That's going to be done on ChatGPT or some other AI search. So if you're not thinking about this today? Pinterest and Instagram actually do reference on Google. So when people search that, if you put it into those platforms, linkedin's the same way. If someone Googles your name, what comes up.

Stefanie Couch:

That's a question I ask people a lot because we think a lot about company brands. But how much are we thinking about personal brands? Because all of those salespeople that work for you are a beacon for your product line. So if they're posting too, it's just more and more organic reach that you're getting. So I love that you guys are thinking about branding and doing all of that and thinking about Pinterest and all these things that maybe are thought of but not really done well in our industry. So I love to see that for sure. About the word grit so I love the word grit because I think it really summarizes our industry pretty well. From what I've seen in my years in the industry In a time in your career, tell me a little story of a time that you had to push through something and how grit has really pushed you in your career to be better.

Nick Pesl:

Thinking of grit. You know it makes me think of COVID, to be honest with you. So back during COVID I was our displays manager, running that manufacturing facility, and at that time we had taken on a large customer and we had a huge amount of display orders and the supply chain issues hit us just like they hit everybody, and at the same time it was trade show season. So our backlog of work was it was what seemed insurmountable. We had so much work, you know, obviously getting pressure from our customers, getting pressure from leadership. I probably put just as much pressure on myself and you know we started off with weekly meetings. We ended up doing daily meetings right away in the morning, just to make sure we were setting our goals properly.

Nick Pesl:

And I think the one thing that I learned the most through that process was just to trust yourself and trust your leadership and the culture you created and the values that you instilled in your team. And honestly, as I alluded to earlier, you know we had a really cohesive team. Everybody worked well together. They, they all had positive attitudes and when I feel like you have a team like that, no task is too big. What seemed like a very you know here, in hindsight I look back. It was a stressful time. There was a lot of work, but you know, we trusted ourselves and we made it through to the other side and we met all the goals in between that we needed to meet. So I think ultimately that was probably one that comes to mind the most. That's, the most recent was COVID, because I have to imagine that the circumstances around COVID put similar folks in situations like that as well.

Stefanie Couch:

Yeah, it was the craziest time I think you know in the business that I've ever seen. For sure. I was opening two door shops right in the midst of that, like the week the world shut down. I was literally hiring a team of a lot of people and trying to open a big facility. So it's like, okay, this is already a test, let's just add a little layer. It's like I don't know if you ever played Nintendo, but like in Mario, let's hop right to the biggest battle group day one I do think it makes you have to have this amount of you know, grit and tenacity that sometimes you know we need that hard test.

Stefanie Couch:

I think that our failures and the things that we do on a micro level really help us have these macro wins in our life and our careers, and so COVID was definitely one that I think tested all of us, but it did. I felt a lot stronger and able to conquer bigger challenges after I got out of that, so I love that story. Thank you for sharing it with me. I really appreciate you coming on the Great Blueprint and I've enjoyed our conversation. I am excited to see you, hopefully at the next trade show and see what you guys at Kolbe come out with next. So thank you so much for joining me, and if you want to speak with Nick or connect with him, he is on LinkedIn, and is there any other place? We should send people to connect with you and your team.

Nick Pesl:

And is there any other place we should send people to connect with you and your team LinkedIn or directly to our website as well. Any contact through there would be fine as well.

Stefanie Couch:

Perfect. Well, thank you so much and we will talk to you on the next episode of the Grit Blueprint. That's it for this episode of the Grit Blueprint podcast. For more tools, training and industry content, make sure to subscribe here and follow me on LinkedIn and other social media platforms To find out more about how Grit Blueprint can help you grow your business. Check us out at our website, gritblueprintcom.

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